Rise and Fall of the US Dollar Supremacy: How Sanctions Backfire w/ Prabhat Patnaik
The power of the dollar sustains U.S. imperialism. But rising multipolarity, an overuse of U.S. sanctions, the rise of alternative trading arrangements that sidestep the dollar, and a very obvious crisis of western capitalism have led to panic about a decline in dollar hegemony. What gives the dollar so much power in the first place? What would a world without dollar hegemony look like? What would it mean for those in the imperial core who benefit from this system? How about those in the third world on whose backs dollar hegemony is built? And where does the war in Ukraine fit into it all?
To discuss this and more, Rania Khalek was joined by Prabhat Patnaik, marxist economist, professor emeritus at JNU, and author of many books including “A Theory of Imperialism” and the more recent “Capital and Imperialism: Theory, History, and the Present,” both co-authored with Utsa Patnaik.
Transcript
Intro
0:00
if the dollar is considered by the world's wealth holders to be as good as
0:05
gold in other words it's a form in which wealth can be held then that actually implies that the U.S is sitting
0:10
effectively on top of the gold mine it can keep renting dollars and the world would hold that makes it very easy for
0:17
the U.S to manage its balance of payments current account deficits by
0:23
printing dollars so that it does not have to generate unemployment you know when a country has a current account
0:29
deficit it does one of two things either it it reduces its aggregate demand
0:35
creates unemployment or alternatively it actually depreciates the currency okay
0:42
but the US doesn't never depreciate any currency the U.S does not have to create unemployment the U.S
0:48
can have in principle a large enough level of employment without depreciating
0:54
the currency by simply printing more dollars and the world's wealthy are willing to hold it
1:04
hello everyone I'm calic and this the dollar rules the globe it's the
1:10
world's Reserve currency it's the currency in which oil is traded the power of the dollar sustains U.S
1:16
imperialism but as the world heads towards multipolarity with the rise of China and
1:21
Russia an overuse of U.S sanctions the rise of alternative trading Arrangements
1:26
that sidestep the dollar and a very obvious crisis of Western capitalism
1:32
have led to increasing warnings and even some Panic about a decline in dollar hegemony more and more we hear the term
1:39
de-dollarization but what does this actually mean and why is it happening what gives the dollars
1:46
so much power in the first place what would a world without dollar hegemony look like
1:52
what would it mean for those in the Imperial Corps who benefit from this system how about those in the third world on
1:59
Whose backs dollar hegemony is built and where does the war in Ukraine fit into it all
2:05
to discuss this and more I'm joined by prabhat patnayak Marxist Economist
2:10
professor emeritus at Janu and author of many books including a theory of
2:16
imperialism and the more recent capital and imperialism Theory history and the
2:21
present both co-authored with utsipatnayak but before we jump into it this is just the first half of this
2:28
episode the second half is available for breakthrough news Members Only you can become a member at patreon.com
2:35
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2:41
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2:49
Herbert welcome back to the show it's so nice to have you on again thank you thank you
What is dollar hegemony
2:55
and so today of course we're going to be talking about a topic that you have recently written about and that you
3:01
comment on quite a bit and that is of course waning dollar hegemony which is
3:06
kind of a Hot Topic right now um especially since the US the US
3:11
leadership seems to understand it's actually happening at least slowly so let's start with this I think a lot of
3:18
people understand or recognize that obviously the US dollar is very powerful but what do can you explain just like in
3:26
layman's terms what do we mean when we say dollar hegemony and how did the
3:31
dollar become the world's Reserve currency well you know
3:37
when you look historically people wish to have some means in which
3:44
they would like to hold their wealth and these means typically should be such
3:52
that commodity prices in terms of them should not rise too much because then
3:57
the value of your wealth in terms of his command over Commodities goes down
4:02
now historically the kind of medium in which people have held their wealth has
4:10
been gold or in some cases gold and silver but gold has always been the main
4:16
form in which wealth has been held because gold is one which does not
4:22
require too much space for its value to be held and secondly gold is one in
4:28
terms of which commodity prices are not likely to increase when commodity prices rise gold prices also rise
4:36
now nobody wants to hold their wealth in the form of a currency or a currency
4:42
denomination asset unless that currency is in some sense linked to Gold this is
4:48
the way things were in the gold standard they were in the Britain Woods Arrangement which ended in the early
4:54
nine sevens now we have a unique situation where the dollar is a currency
5:01
which plays the same role as gold in the sense that is as good as gold in
5:06
people's minds while it really has no formal gold backing now obviously the
5:12
question is why does it have this uh this role in people's mind of being as
5:18
good as gold essentially because the U.S is the most powerful capitalist country now if it is
5:25
the case that actually the U.S um you know that commodity prices Rose
5:31
in terms of the the dollar uh in that case the U.S would
5:36
be able politically and militarily to intervene in any initiative that
5:43
actually pushes the commodity prices uh therefore people have this confidence
5:48
so that in some sense the role of the dollar is clearly linked to the hegemony
5:53
of the dollar is clearly linked to U.S imperialism that that because it's the
5:59
most powerful imperialist country people expect that his currency is not going to depreciate much intensive for me
How is dollar hegemony related to US imperialism
6:07
and I want to I want you to elaborate on that a bit when we talk about dollar hegemony one thing that you often note
6:14
is that it's built on the backs of the people of the third world and in other words it's another way of saying that it
6:20
is in fact a tool of U.S imperialism so can you explain how is dollar hegemony
6:26
related to U.S imperialism and what does it actually mean for the people of the third world
6:33
okay you know the way when you look at manufactured goods prices they are
6:39
basically prices which are marked up you know in in other words you have a certain labor cost you have a certain
6:45
raw material cost and the actual price is just a markup over that so if the
6:51
labor cost and the raw material costs do not change per unit of output then you
6:56
would have relative stability of the manufactured goods prices and in fact all other non-primary Goods prices uh if
7:05
it's not marked up if it's not if the raw material in labor costs don't rise
7:11
in terms of dollars then the final goods prices also would not rise in terms of dollars
7:17
now as far as labor costs are concerned the way that the labor costs are
7:22
controlled is by having unemployment by having award marks at Gold Reserve Army
7:27
of Labor in fact you can think in terms of currencies being organized into
7:33
different categories the dollar of course is the most Superior followed by
7:38
all kinds of other currencies of advanced countries like the Euro and so on on Sterling Euro which again are
7:46
currencies in terms of which wealth is held but that's because they are supposed to have a fixed price relative
7:52
to the dollar and they maintain this fixed price by adjusting their levels of
7:59
unemployment that you know if there's a tendency for the currency to depreciate then they increase the level of
8:06
unemployment to make sure that the workers are beaten down sufficiently to ensure that there's a price stability
8:12
now that so so in the case of the dollar unemployment has to be relatively less
8:20
compared to the other countries in order to maintain uh it's its relative
8:25
stability of price what happens to the unit raw material cost the unit raw material cost
8:31
basically depend on the range of Library Commodities that is all agricultural primary Commodities minerals of various
8:39
kinds and so on they are the ones in whose case it is possible for the
8:45
producing countries to come together as indeed oil opaque dead in order to jack
8:50
up their prices but that is where U.S imperialism intervenes to ensure that
8:57
the prices do not rise and that's why the the the military and political clout
9:03
at the U.S imperialism is absolutely essential for maintaining the role of
9:09
the dollar as a reserve currency I mean yeah that's the Crux of the matter right because the other day the
What makes the US dollar special
9:15
dollar really is just ice bird that has no actual value
9:20
um and it it has no intrinsic value at least and it actually costs very little to produce you just print it on special
9:27
paper so it's so to elaborate on that a bit you mentioned the US military like what is it exactly it may seem obvious
9:35
but what is it exactly let's lay it out that makes the US dollar special that gives it its value
9:44
yes you know it is true of all currencies that the cost of producing
9:51
them is much less than the value they command okay and that's because of the
9:57
fact that their prices earlier in terms of gold were fixed under the gold standard every currency is price in
10:04
terms of all those things and at the Britain wood system the price of the dollar in terms of gold was like 35
10:11
rounds of gold uh now and and the other other currency prices under the Britain
10:18
which is the code the system could vary but they are more or less fixed to the dollar so gold provided the the basis on
10:26
which the strength of the dollar uh was anchored now this is something which
10:33
actually got a knock because of the fact that so much of the US U.S you see if
10:39
you if you have the gold being held by people in the in
10:45
in you know being con considering it to be as good as gold then effectively it's
10:51
like the US is sitting on a gold mine it can it can print dollars which are then
10:57
held by the world as being as good as gold as long as nobody says that look
11:02
you please convert it to Gold the U.S can go on printing as much dollars as it lies now during the Vietnam war and so
11:10
on the U.S actually produced a lot of dollars to finance the war because of which uh actually the value of the
11:18
dollar Visa we came under a cloud Igor
11:23
was the first person who actually wanted a conversion of dollars into gold the
11:28
U.S didn't have that much of gold and therefore the dollar was its convertibility was suspended in the
11:34
Britain root system collapse now you have a situation where the dollar is not
11:40
at all convertible to go but nonetheless people still hold the dollar to be as good as gold because as I said there's a
11:48
confidence that it's value in terms of Commodities is not going to fall too
11:54
much or not going to fall significantly and if you hold Commodities the carrying
11:59
costs that you know basically it will cost you a lot to store Commodities so there is no other commodity that can
12:06
possibly for be a form of wealth as the dollar is so given that the question is
12:14
that the U.S has to Forever ensure that the value of the dollar in terms of all
12:22
kinds of Commodities does not fall and it can ensure that by ensuring the
12:28
value of the Commodities in terms of dollars does not rise too much which is
12:34
what happens like for instance now there's an inflation this inflation poses a threat to the value of the
12:40
dollar which is why the U.S has raised its interest rates to make sure that
12:45
unemployment is generated sufficiently so that the workers wages are kept down
12:51
even as prices rise as a means of combating the price rise likewise it is
12:56
it is you a generating a recession is again a means of keeping raw material
13:03
prices down you you you you remember that you know the oil prices for instance opaque plus had already cut
13:11
down its oil down the output because of the recession make sure the oil prices
13:16
don't fall too much but because the recession continues Saudi Arabia has recently decided to further cut its
13:23
output so they are cutting their output in order to make sure that the prices don't fall but the idea of the recession
13:30
is and that by the way is a challenge to the U.S which is declining in Germany
13:36
but on the other hand the the recession itself arises because the U.S is trying
13:42
to maintain its hegemony of the dollar now normally the recession would not be
13:48
required because you can use military and political power in against any
13:53
country or group of countries that tries to destabilize the dollar but now it is
14:00
not any one country or group of countries but it's basically the world economy which has caused an inflation
14:08
where right which is why the U.S has to generate unemployment and reduced prices
14:13
of private economy and this also may seem like an obvious question or the answer to this question
Why is the value of the US dollar so important
14:20
may also seem obvious excuse me but it's worth um breaking it down why is the
14:26
value of the US dollar so important to maintaining U.S hegemony over the world
14:32
economy no that's a very important question you
14:37
see as I mentioned in in
14:42
terms if the dollar is considered by the world's wealth holders to be as good as
14:49
gold in other words it's a form in which wealth can be held then that actually implies that the U.S is sitting
14:54
effectively on top of the gold mine it can keep renting dollars and the world would hold that makes it very easy for
15:01
the U.S to manage its balance of payments current account deficits by
15:07
printing dollars so that it does not have to generate unemployment you know when a country has a current account
15:13
deficit it does one of two things either it it reduces its aggregate demand
15:19
creates unemployment or alternatively it actually depreciates the currency okay
15:26
but the U.S doesn't never depreciate any currency the U.S does not have to create unemployment the U.S can have in
15:34
principle a large enough level of employment without depreciating the currency by simply printing on dollars
15:41
and the world's wealthy are willing to hold it now therefore that is in general
15:47
terms and advantage of the U.S but suppose the dollar was not a reserve
15:52
currency then the U.S if it had to maintain a current account deficit by
15:57
the way I should go back a little here that typically the leading capitalist country
16:04
always has a current account deficit we survey the emerging rival capitalist
16:11
country Britain had a current account deficit Visa V Germany and Continental
16:17
Europe and the United States which were then emerging as the economic Powers as
16:23
as powerful capitalist countries if you don't have it then of course there is no
16:29
International Arrangement each country would then repudiate the leadership of
16:35
the leading country and therefore the system would would break into a a series
16:41
of conflicts between countries instead of accepting a particular order dictated
16:47
by the leading country therefore typically to satisfy their Ambitions the
16:53
U.S or or the leading country always runs a current account if it's in the U.S has been running a recurrent account
16:58
deficit for a very long time these are we Germany we serve Japan Missouri China and so on
17:04
now if you run this current account they face it then of course you have to finance it and the way you finance It Is
17:11
by printing suppose the U.S did not run the current conditions it's suppose they tried to
17:17
reduce the current account deficit and suppose he did so I mean either it can do so by creating unemployment but
17:24
suppose it did so let's say by depreciating the currency if I try to depreciate the currency then the real
17:30
wages would fall because the value of imported would rise relative to money wages all depreciation hurts the working
17:38
class so they would be resistance on the part of the workers because they they would be having a reduction in their
17:45
real wages and it would destabilize the system likewise if you depreciate your
17:50
currency to reduce your parenting or deficit then other countries are also going to follow suit then you know
17:57
because of because if U.S reduces his current account deficit then some other country loses its U.S market and if so
18:05
then they would try to enlarge the U.S market by countering the U.S depreciation by depreciating their own
18:12
currency so you would have a free for all what is what the economy is called beg My Neighbor policy that I maintain
18:21
my level of employment by making my neighbor into a beggar okay so if bigger
18:27
my labor policy you'll have a series the bigger My Neighbor policy like in the 1930s and that would mean a collapse any
18:34
world of any World Order therefore not having to depreciate your currency not
18:40
having to reduce your level of employment is something which is very helpful to the US to maintain its
18:47
leadership role which it does and because the dollar is the reserved
18:52
so so it's it's both ways the dollar is being a reserve currency helps the U.S to maintain its leadership role as a
19:00
leading imperialist power and because it's a leading imperialism
The declining use of the US dollar in international trade
19:07
and when we talk about dollar hegemony of course like you're talking about so it's it's in one sense it's the reserve
19:13
currency in another sense it's what's used to trade can you distinguish between the declining use of the dollar
19:20
in international trade especially if Commodities which is happening quite
19:25
fast at the moment as compared to holding dollars in reserves or as assets which is happening much more slowly
19:34
yes obviously these two rules are quite distinct roles
19:40
except for the fact that ultimately they are related because if it can if if a currency is used for trade for
19:47
transactions in the international market then it stands to reason that is it is the form in terms of which wealth would
19:54
be held or that or assets be nominated in terms of that
20:00
currency would be the form in which well it would be held like U.S government bonds for instance which are in dollar
20:06
terms but on the other hand as you said right it's not a kind of immediate
20:11
one-to-one correspondence so if the dollar is not used at all in international transactions then a time
20:18
would come when it would no longer be also a form in which wealth is held but
20:23
on the other hand it's perfectly possible that the dollar is used in international transactions would go down
20:28
much faster while it would continue to be held as a form of wealth because
20:34
people believe that ultimately it's it's value in terms of Commodities and so on would not
Impact of US Sanctions
20:41
and then one thing that you actually wrote about recently is the impact of
20:46
U.S sanctions um on the declining or the waning US
20:52
dollar hegemony can you explain how this imposition of sanctions against countries that the US is hostile to runs
20:59
this risk of jeopardizing the hegemony of the dollar as the world's Reserve currency
21:05
yes in fact you see if the U.S was sanctioning only one country or two
21:12
countries or something like that then those countries would actually suffer they would get isolated but if the U.S
21:19
is sanctioning 50 countries then it is natural that those countries would in
21:24
fact come together to form their form their own arrangements from bilateral relations like for instance now Brazil
21:32
has got a bilateral relation with China India is having bilateral relations with
21:40
Russia these bilateral relations are not new in fact they were there before this whole process of globalization began
21:47
India had bilateral trade agreements with Russia with Eastern European
21:52
countries all the Socialist block countries by which what happened was that you did not need dollars for
21:59
settling your transactions uh let's say the price of the Indian rupee we serve in the Russian group was fixed on the
22:06
Soviet Union's rubber was fixed and therefore whatever you was the trade was
22:13
done in terms of these uh these kinds of calculation in terms of local currencies
22:19
and whatever was the balance that was left over was settled over a period of time suppose India had a positive
22:26
balance then over a period of time it will buy more Russian Goods in order to settle that balance so the point is that
22:34
the bilateral arrangements are not new but they are coming into hope precisely
22:39
because so many countries are actually now under the U.S sanction and if that
22:46
happens in that case obviously the first of course form little Arrangements about
22:52
trade you know I mean first few formidable Arrangements about trade when you form little Arrangements about trade
22:58
as you were raising the question earlier then you would like to hold some of your
23:04
currency in the form of reserve for future settlement of these trade accounts so so once you have
23:13
these kinds of Arrangements coming up then the transaction demand for dollar
23:19
goes down in which case over a period of time not immediately over a period of time the wealth demanded
23:26
but that can happen over a period of time not immediate and I think it's important also you
Alternative Arrangements
23:32
mentioned earlier and I want to get to some of the alternative Arrangements um and give more examples of that but you
23:38
mentioned earlier like Saudi Saudi Arabia there does seem to be a shift more
23:44
recently not just in sanctioned countries but also countries that the U.S has a good relationship with
23:51
um actually pursuing somewhat independent paths when it comes to their own economic interests
23:56
countries in the global South like Saudi Arabia or Brazil I mean in the case of Saudi Arabia it's typically this like
24:02
client state of the U.S that lately it refused to increase its oil output when
24:07
the U.S demanded it it's you know made this deal with Iran overseen by China which the U.S was quite upset about you
24:15
have also India I mean India is a very close Ally of the US yet it's basically
24:20
buying Russian oil in many ways keeping the Russian economy like functioning while Russia's under all these sanctions
24:27
um and the U.S hasn't been able to stop that do you also see perhaps uh a part
24:34
of the contribution to a waning you know dollar hegemony also being
24:39
related to the fact that we have this like rise in multi-polarity where these countries of the third world that aren't
24:46
necessarily on one side or another or could even be very close to the U.S just
24:51
you know they have more leverage they have more wiggle room they don't have to listen to the us as much as they used to
24:57
the U.S in a way is like kind of losing a little bit of control over the global
25:03
South would I mean does that does that sound accurate to you no it's absolutely accurate in fact
25:09
that's exactly what is happening and that is what poses a threat to dollar regimeni and indeed to the preeminent
25:17
role of U.S imperialism you see in the old days there was Soviet Union and
25:22
there was the U.S and you had the non-aligned block which was with neither
25:27
side you know it took independent positions on issues there is a then for
25:32
quite some time after the collapse of the Soviet Union you actually had USA Germany over a lot of countries
25:38
including India I mean India was a major member of the non-aligned countries but then subsequently Indian foreign policy
25:45
came closer to the United States but on the other hand now once more
25:51
because under the new arrangement of globalization
25:57
countries like China have come up grown very rapidly the Soviet Union which had it built up
26:05
enormous productive potential now Russia has inherited a substantial chunk of
26:10
that product productive potential so you actually now have powerful countries
26:16
coming up and that again provides as you mentioned multiplearity is what provides
26:22
a number of third world countries with a degree of leeway with a degree of
26:29
Leverage which which for a very very long time they had actually lacked and the example of Saudi Arabia you
26:36
mentioned is absolutely a very clear example you see let's go back earlier
26:42
I mean fundamentally the U.S presides over a world order
26:48
whose rules it itself floats long ago in the case of Iran long ago in the case of
26:56
Iran After the Revolution after the Iranian revolutions this simply froze Iranian assets held in
27:04
U.S banks now the point is that if you have an order if you have an international order in that case a
27:11
country should be free to use the assets it has actually Acquired and accumulated
27:17
in some banks but they actually froze those us and they're no longer available to Iran which is really a good grotesque
27:26
violation of the rules of the game of the very order which they had imposed of
27:31
the world now again now for instance you have a situation where Russians don't have access to the kind of foreign
27:38
exchange that they held in in in the European and American Banks now therefore
27:44
throughout the U.S is actually flouting its own order which it imposes of the
27:51
world and that's one reason why the world at some point would then say all right you know we are going to put our
27:56
money elsewhere and this that's a threat to the which which even Janet Yellen has
28:04
actually acknowledged that you know that the sanctions but coming back you know the Saudi
28:11
Arabian case is very important because Saudi Arabia as you said was all true considered a client state of the United
28:17
States but Saudi Arabia despite Joe Biden
28:23
himself visiting Saudi Arabia and sending several ministers to Saudi
28:28
Arabia to ensure that Saudi Arabia does not curtail its oil output went along
28:34
with Russia and curtailing oil output some months back therefore it was a kind of you know it
28:41
took an independent position Visa with the United States against the United States is a Germany which really must
28:49
have come as a big shock to the United States and Saudi Arabia now has just announced a unilaterally cut in oil
28:56
output in order to keep up its price so so the U.S hegemony is being threatened
29:02
and only with the third world this is making itself felt as a matter of fact
29:07
say more Hirsch has actually recently pointed out that
29:13
the majority of the world's countries and in the and the world's population
29:18
perhaps supports Russia in the war that in the in the Ukraine war in which
29:24
Russia is in one side India on the other side we just Rose the kind of loss of a
29:30
Germany from the United States right in that I mean that can't be overstated too because typically the U.S
US hegemony over narratives
29:37
does have hegemony over uh over narratives I would say and in
29:42
this case it doesn't matter what all of these different you know U.S backed Outlets or Western Outlets say countries
29:48
around the world for the most part aren't seeing it the U.S way they're not seeing it the pronato way and also just
29:54
to mention I mean Saudi Arabia is all has also told China that at some point in the near future they would be willing
30:00
to sell oil in Chinese currency which I think the US was also quite upset about um I do want to touch a little bit more
30:06
on the alternative Arrangements that you mentioned and in a recent piece for news click which I will of course linked to
30:14
in the description you write and I'm quoting you if the sanctions were imposed on just one or two countries
30:19
then matters would be different which is what you were just saying as well but sanctions these days are used by the US
30:24
to Target dozens of countries and when this happens those countries tend to get together to form alternative
30:30
arrangements for bypassing such sanctions these alternative Arrangements have the effect of undermining the U.S
30:35
dominated World Order which is characterized by the hegemony of the dollar and you did mention a couple of bilateral Arrangements I'm just curious
30:42
if you could perhaps elaborate and give some other examples of uh these alternative Arrangements I mean we also
30:48
have things like the Shanghai cooperation Council I'm not sure how important that is in this context but also bricks
30:54
um which isn't just sanctioned countries but includes Russia which is a sanctioned country as well as China so
31:00
can you talk a little bit about the importance of these these Alternatives uh especially as an economy like China
31:06
is involved which is massive and growing yes in fact I think many countries now
31:13
wants to want to join break Saudi Arabia until has shown an interest in becoming
31:20
a member of brics and there is talk of bricks coming out with a new currency
31:26
and actually many American commentators have said that if brics
31:34
comes out with his own currency in that case the hegemony of the dollar which I
31:40
said whose undermining would take quite some time they say would be far more imitate because people would actually
31:47
opt to move to the brics currency as opposed to the dollar whatever that may
31:53
be the the emergency bricks is something which is a very serious challenge to the
31:59
United States and particularly you see already you have Russia and China but particularly Saudi Arabia joins in that
32:07
case it would become an extremely powerful grouping or and that would be a
32:12
real major threat to uh Western imperialism and really native
Sanctions and the US Dollar
32:19
and you know when we talk about like dollar hegemony at the same time it does
32:24
sort of undergird the current world economic system do you think that these countries that we're talking about
32:30
whether they're targeted with sanctions or whether they're involved in these alternative Arrangements do you think that they're wary of just how much
32:38
their Arrangements could threaten the US dollar and what I mean here is in the sense that
32:44
I imagine like countries like India Brazil South Africa even China probably
32:49
don't want to actually collapse the US dollar overnight that would that would
32:54
have horrible repercussions around the world would it not yes absolutely particularly because a
33:03
lot of these countries already hold their Assets in terms of dollars I will
33:08
think of China it it holds a huge amount of US dollars a dollar denominated U.S
33:14
government bonds so if you have a collapse in the price with dollar or even a depreciation in the price of the
33:21
dollar in that case that depreciation would mean the China would be losing quite a bit of Israel so they would not
33:27
like a collapse in the price of the dollar but they would like a transition
33:33
a slow transition from the dollar to whatever currency that they are actually promoting if there's a bricks curtains
33:41
some American Community it does actually say that look if you have a depreciation
33:47
of the price of the dollar then that is going to generate greater employment in
33:52
the United States because that is a that would make a Imports more expensive so the U.S producers would be able to
34:00
have a larger share of the market therefore demand would increase therefore output therefore
34:06
but I think that is something which does not reckon with the fact that such a
34:12
thing would also mean a reduction in the real wages of American workers if prices
34:17
increase and it would also retail invite retaliations from the U.S rival they are
34:26
not going to sit quietly and watch their markets disappear because the U.S is
34:31
expanding the markets that it has accessed so for these reasons I think a
34:37
depreciation the price of the dollar is not something which is I mean any any
34:42
significant depreciation the price of the dollar is not immediately on the agenda and certainly depreciation in the
34:50
price of the dollar not Visa be Commodities that's already happening in the U.S is generating unemployment and
34:57
and reduced demand for primary Commodities in order to extend that but depreciation vis-a-vis any other
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currency is unlikely to in my view to be very rapid precisely for the reasons you
35:09
mentioned that already people hold large stocks of dollar a dollar denominated
35:14
assets they would not like a collapse in the price dollar right and then I want
35:20
to talk a little bit about a comparison you've made which is to to how dollar hergemony is similar to colonialism how
35:29
does this dollar hegemony specifically benefit the Metropolitan capitalist
35:34
world as a whole while then hurting the third world and I know you sort of mentioned a little bit of this earlier
35:40
but I guess I'm thinking more in the context of yeah like how does this have a parallel to colonialism
35:48
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