VIDEO As the fall term gets underway for students across the United States, we speak with journalist and academic Natasha Lennard about how college administrators are attempting to quash Gaza solidarity actions following mass protests at campuses across the country in the spring. One example is New York University, which recently updated its student policy to make criticisms of Zionism potentially punishable under its anti-discrimination rules. "It's extremely dangerous," says Lennard, who teaches at The New School. "It performs de facto apologia for Israel, and to have that put into writing by a university so clearly is just open for further abuses."
I want to bring into this conversation another professor um Natasha Leonard columnist at The Intercept associate director of the creative publishing and critical journalism program at the new school not far from Columbia University her most recent piece College administrators spent summer break dreaming up ways to squash Gaza protests can you put uh Professor Thrasher and um Professor Frankie's experience in a broader context of the universities from here in New York NYU uh to other universities around the country absolutely um and thank you it's lovely to be back and I firstly want to say thank you to Professor Frankie and Professor Thrasher for being uh among the professors who refuse to be silenced in this uh moment of what is widely being called a new maoism and I think that's an accurate description their cases are not uh unusual um and it is indeed sad and it is indeed disappointing indeed no less than ghoulish um we are having both def facto and through policy um both in terms of uh new regulations and student conduct guides coming through for this semester um as well as uh punitive actions against students and professors um a reification of the claim that uh Israel critical speech and pro Palestinian speech uh should count under violations of title 6 non-discrimination law and regulations and policy in universities um what that does is align University policy with uh the right-wing agenda of Congress and right-wing lawmakers who follow in the uh footsteps of a right-wing Israeli uh us uh consensus and I think if a university is not a place where that can be critically challenged um especially at a time of genocide when there are no universities left standing in Gaza which we cannot forget and the concerns of our Academy is uh the speech of professors speaking out for academic freedom and speaking out for uh the liberation of uh an occupied people uh we're in very dark indeed and Natasha Leonard you write in your piece in the set that quote tucked into a document purportedly offering clarification on school policy at the NYU New York University guidelines introduce an unprecedented expansion of protected classes to include Zionist and Zionism yes this is a a very uh exemplary in the worst of ways document that was just released by the administration at NYU it is a new uh updated guide of student conduct um about uh non-discrimination and harassment um it goes further than uh any document I've seen uh in uh asserting that Zionism when used critically um should uh or at least readily can be understood as and I quote the document a code word it doesn't say that occasionally by anti-semites um that uh Zionism is used as a code word it takes that are given so that is to uh clarify that is a student conduct guide um very poorly written very open to misuse that is asserting that the political ideology founded in the 19th century of the ethn state of Israel being a Zionist project uh that that should be considered part of the protected class of Jewish identity um religion and ethnic and uh shared ancestry um that is what we're seeing in um attempts in state houses Nationwide uh to uh attach Zionism the political ideology to the protected class of uh Jewish identity it's extremely dangerous it uh performs de facto apologia for Israel um and to have that put in into writing by a university so clearly uh is just open for further abuses and an escalation of the sort of repression we've already seen Professor Frankie well I teach a class on citizenship and nationality in Israel and Palestine and we begin with a critical look at the concept of Zionism of course it was Advanced as a place as an idea about the safety of the Jewish people being located in mandate Palestine but there were plenty of Jewish people at the time who said this is actually a horrible idea from the perspective of the safety of Jewish people because what it says is the all belong in Israel and nowhere else not in Europe not in the United States nowhere else and so this will lead to more violence more expulsions more anti-semitic programs if we lean in too much to the idea that Jews belong primarily and especially in Israel and those were critiques coming from Jews again themselves so if we are not allowed to talk about that anymore in universities what we've done is surrender the very idea of the and that is so much what troubled us about Manu shafik our president former president of Columbia's testimony uh in Congress and some of those other presidents who came who were called before Congress is they they not only did not put up a robust defense of the idea of a university where we teach students how to be critical thinkers in such a critical time but they actually joined in to the criticism of the University my president did not stand up for any one of us nor did Professor th Thrashers um uh at Northwestern and this is part of what concerns me is that our universities are places now where we could not have a protest and say things that are now being said in Tel Aviv by Israelis the protests that are happening there this week if they took place on Colombia's campus our students would be expelled or are charged with very serious disciplinary violations this is where we've where we've come um it's impossible to talk about the kinds of things that Amy in your setup of the just the horrible things that are happening right this week in Janine in Gaza we can't talk about that at Colombia I'm so that's part of what concerns me is is that we don't know our history and we're um these these new policies are keeping from us from it and Natasha Leonard we just have about 30 seconds but you've noted that universities not only facing attacks from Congress they're also uh being subjected to lawsuits all around the country can you talk about that briefly yes we've seen a series of litigation including at NYU Colombia Harvard UCLA uh bought by uh often unnamed students and faculty uh often very frivolous suits um that universities are forced to answer to nonetheless um and then through settlements and uh often uh non-public agreements uh are then forced to change policy often uh leading to the uh conflation of uh anti-zionism and anti-Semitism we're going to have to leave it there but we're going to continue this discussion over time we'll link to your piece Natasha Leonard College administrator spent summer break dreaming up ways to squash guaza Gaza protest she's at the new School Columbia law professor kathern Frankie uh Kathleen Paratus civil rights lawyer and Steven Thrasher I'm Amy Goodman with