Video with transcript: Gaza: The US’ Standing in the Global South is At Its LOWEST After Backing Israel (Ambassador. Afif Safieh)
I'm Ashton ransy and welcome back to Going Underground broadcasting all around the world from the UAE in the past few days Israeli media has confirmed what Going Underground and others have said for months Israeli forces killed their own on October the 7th meanwhile one of the world's preeminent medical journals the Lancet in the UK has offered an estimate of 186,000 killed by the British EU and Us weapons pouring onto Gaza un special rapporter on the right to food Michael fakri has already declared Mass Israeli starvation of children a famine because of ukus EU armed Israel on the pretext of October the 7th joining me from London in the UK is former Palestinian Diplomat aif safier he was Plo represent ative to Holland the UK the Vatican the USA and Russia he's been Deputy head of the PLO delegation in Geneva and to the UN Ambassador thank you so much for uh coming on every hour the slaughter continues could Israel continue to commit genocide without Britain where you are the United States the European weapons you know often commentators have said that Mr nathany has shot this time himself in the foot and it seemed to me that Netanyahu seems to have many more than two feet to shoot out because up to now he gets he keeps getting away with it and it's unfortunate because in international relations the international will should should Prevail on a national whim or a personal capricious whm I personally believe that he is antagonizing the International System and I believe that he has an interest in prolonging the war the slaughter the Carnage because his political survival depends on it because he's either in power in Israel or he's because with respect abass I wasn't Netanyahu I was asking whether the genocide could continue without Britain the United States and the European Union nahu you know the United States personally I consider that they are responsible for the self-inflicted importance of the International Community you know the US Administration has been constantly shielding Israel in the United Nations vetoing un resolutions and even their own resolution concerning the ceasefire Netanyahu has succeeded so far in sabotaging it and in delaying it h the UK good news might be coming soon because the new government elected the a few days ago uh is reviewing their British attitude Visa the international criminal court the previous conservative government very sheepishly towards the Israeli attitude has challenged the international criminal court and said it had no jurisdiction to indict Mr Netanyahu by the way good news Mr Netanyahu will be visiting the United States at the end of this month to speak in the Congress has said that he will not make a stop over in Europe because he really fears that Europeans might find the courage of apprehending him to and deliver him for judgment and the tribunal of the inter Court I'll return to that in a second but just on on Britain since you mentioned brital Awakening occur you mentioned Britain your optimism about Britain I mean in fness no one really cares about the international criminal court arguably they've given so long for the genocide to continue saki Stam who I have met on a BBC program actually said Israel has the right to withhold Power and Water from Palestinian civilians he's the new prime minister of the country where you are in right now uh he's also said that your flag your Palestinian flag May encourage attacks on British Jews maybe it shouldn't even be allowed on the Streets of London why do you have this optimism about saki stama who has just appointed a cabinet of people funded by lobbyists it's a very cautious optimism but let me tell you sir I personally believe that we have room to maneuver with a labor government in London much more than we had with the conservative government forget not that a very high proportion of the labor MPS and elect are very Pro Palestinian historically for the last two decades number two the unions which are really the foundation and the supporters of the labor party all of them unanimously have been calling for the ceasefire continuing funding the U the UN which Israel wants to consider as a terrorist organization can you imagine so I believe we have means to pressure the government a labor government much more than we had means to persuade a conservative government but it's cautious cautious uh optimism I'm optimistic also concerning sorry Ambassador you do realize that Sak stama kicked Jeremy Corbin out of the party for being an anti-site and considers anyone who talks about Zionism I noticed in a week where just in the past few days meta the big Facebook Silicon Valley firm has said using the word Zionism pejoratively is uh to be banned on Facebook and who knows maybe uh WhatsApp isn't this the problem with the PLO you have this cautious optimism and now you're a hated organization across world my friend I think you should be aware that I'm not a big fan of Sir Kier starmer but as I told you we have friends within the labor party that I consider to be assets number two I think that he knows how vulnerable he is because those who have studied the Electoral sociology in the UK know that has sweeping majority in Parliament but there wasn't a landslide in the electorate he got 3 million votes less than what Jeremy Corbin got in 2017 by the way and they all know that most of the seats where there is a substantial Arab and Muslim communities there was a dip in the voting for the labor of at least 20% so I believe that during the last elections the Palestinian the Arab and the Muslim Community have shown more maturity than in previous elections they have more sent signals to all the political parties that they are there as part of the national tissue and I believe that we will be exploring the potential of the concept of multiculturalism multiculturalism Sir is a very important Concept in the European Arena it allows minorities to maintain and preserve their identity and at the same time work to further their integration identity and integration are no more incompatible so you will be hearing more of the Arab community in the UK for example we have noticed that in the House of Lords every possible minority in the UK is represented in the House of Lords except the Arab British community and I believe they should be recognized as a community and I believe that the major parties should accept that entering the House of Lords is easier than entering the House of Commons because it's my nomination I think labor somewhere has to abolish the House of Lords yeah I think the House of Lords needs I think the House of Lords needs to be abolished that was the labor Manifesto un Democrat no no that's answer from you as long as it exists the reality is that the Arab British Community is the only one unrepresented and as long as it exists we should be demanding that a few members of that Community are recognized and elevated to the House of Lords which is not unimportant in the British political system okay well enough about Britain uh for a moment um yeah I think you know we have enough enough Lords arguably what do you think about uh the fact that um every time anyone talks about the uh genocide in Gaza at those State Department press briefings the Statesman uh State Department spokesperson or Anthony blinkin will say you know we care desperately about the children of Gaza whose heads are being sliced off of course by the thousands with these Us weapons and British weapons Biden did withdraw a shipment of a 2,000 mk84 bomb shipment famously used to mass kill Vietnam why do you think he paused one of 2,000 bombs used to Mass Slaughter uh people in terms of personnel uh just to make it look good we should hold the American Administration responsible for the genocide taking place in front of our eyes day in and day out and I believe that Biden has already paid a price because he was shown to be extremely vulnerable if he maintains his candidacy because he has lost many supporters within the youth and minorities in the USA and I believe that besides his physical fragility and Etc it's his attitude of sheepish alignment on the Israeli preference even sometimes contrary to the American national interest today you are not unaware that American lovability in the global South is at its slowest and that's because of their position and attitude Vis A the slaughter and the courage taking place so I personally believe that it will end up with Biden withdrawing his candidacy and blinken is a Secretary of State who is mediocre and anyway he positioned himself as a Zionist from the very beginning uh he almost takes instructions from Netanyahu after each of his visits and I think that the negotiations now taking place have turned into a farce and nanahu is manipulating everybody and everybody in Israel who is aware that Netanyahu will maintain the endless unnecessary talks until he goes to Congress in defiance by the way to Biden and the Democratic Administration interestingly historically Israel was cultivating the pro Israeli Lobby in Washington as a bipartisan apparatus and vehicle it was both Democrats and Republicans but nanahu for several years now has shown a preference for Republicans to win all types of Elections and Netanyahu apparently is waiting for Trump to enter the White House again which would be a disaster for American society and American preferences but how can it get any worse than it was how can it get any worse under Trump than it was under Joe Biden and blinkin and Sullivan can it get any worse than it is already for the people of Gaza it's extremely bad my friend but I don't think that the world moves from bad to good and to better it can it can turn worse and uh anyway if the Democrats are wise they will deliver another candidate they still have four months it's maybe late but not too late and I hope but all Democrat contenders are electable and there they have many people who might be electable but the Biden Ambassador who who in the Democrats who in the Democrats does not support the sending of weapons to Israel even the squad has supported sending American we to not to play American politics on this program but I personally believe that several uh voices will be raised on there are moral di dilemas that the Democrats are now trying to cope with and let me tell you for example a senator like Mr van Holland a very distinguished Senator who's not known to be pro-arab or Pro Palestinian had moral dilemmas and had problems with those who put Israel's interest first he represented in discussions and hearings the national dignity that has been lacking in the debates occurring on Capitol Hill you know the joke that Capitol Hill is another Israeli occupied territories that need one day to be liberated if ever we want to have evenhanded American policies you know the joke you know the joke that why doesn't Israel want to become the 51st state and the answer is that they will have to content themselves then with only two senators while now they can rely on 95 Senators because of the power of APAC and the financial assistance of APAC to many politicians in in the states anyway I believe that history is a dynamic process and things are moving things are changing and one of the factors that are changing is within the American Jewish Community you've seen demonstrations in Washington and New York where many thousands of Jews were taking part saying not in our name Ambassador Ambassador aif sfia Ambassador aif sfia I'll stop you there more from the former deputy head of the PLO delegation in Geneva and to the UN after this break welcome back to Going Underground I'm still here with the former Palestinian Diplomat ambassador aif safier Ambassador I interrupted you when you were talking about the uh Infamous Israeli Lobby and how it fails to uh prevent Jews in the United States uh demonstrating for Palestine as they increasingly do but uh the Palestinian Authority you spent so much of your life representing uh uh the PLO around the world uh in your career it's of course bankrolled by Israel is it very increasingly difficult and impossible for the PLO for fata to criticize the United States given that its cash comes Israel I I think you you are using the word bankr in a very controversial and questionable manner uh on the Israel is is robbing the Palestinians from their own money you know in the Paris agreement after the Oslo Accords Israel perceives uh receives on our behalf the taxes of our Import and Export and they give it back to us and deduct 3% for their administrative role now with the new government of Mr Netanyahu with smich as finance minister they have been withholding more than three quarters of this amount of money so using the word bankroll from your side is a questionable way of addressing the issue on the contrary Israel is trying to suffocate the Palestinian uh Authority and I believe what they are doing is a genocide in Gaza and they are doing a politicide in the West Bank against the Palestinian Authority ER in Gaza the strategy from the very beginning has been the following they want to make Gaza totally unlivable to force the population 2 million3 to migrate elsewhere into Egypt they had hoped but Egypt is blocking it thanks thanks for that or anywhere else and they want the geography without the demography that has been the game and this reminds us of what happened in the NBA of 1948 when immediately Israel leveled to the ground dynamited and bulldozed 518 Villages can you imagine that so that the Palestinian refugees cannot exercise the right of return to their homes and hometowns and and Villages as as you know Ambassador this this important process of rendering Gaza uninhabitable hoping that many will choose the Israelis in an obscene manner they use the word voluntary migration what's voluntary about it after they have devastated with those 2,000 pound bombs that they got generously from the Americans and the British as you know Ambassador that kind of truthful history is banned uh def facto in NATO propaganda media in any case so let's just go to the resistance as important as it is and as as valuable information as that is what about reconciliation to unify the resistance uh under the uh terms of un Security Council resolutions like 242 why is it Hamas and the PLO and fata have not all made friends again despite attempts from the United Arab Emirates where I'm speaking to you from Saudi Arabia Russia China Algeria I don't know how many countries have tried to put you together why is it I believe personally that Palestinian public opinion is very angry against the political establishment both of Hamas and fat for they love Hamas according to recent both Hamas and fat for not having achieved reconciliation I believe that if not now when we are having a battle for our existence and our survival and it's no more terrible to tolerable to tolerate this split that exists and I believe we need to open up the PLO so that Hamas and Jad islami join in the leadership of the PLO and I believe that with a national consensus we should have a government that enjoys the support of all the factions what we need today Palestinians is domestic legitimacy and international acceptability and I believe that for domestic legitimacy we need the agreement between fat and Hamas and for international acceptability I think here Hamas needs some wisdom in knowing how to be discreet and accept the idea of a technocratic government for a year or two before we can hold national elections so what are the sticky I mean if someone like you if someone like you who represent if someone like you who represented the PLO around the world uh can say what you just said what are the sticking points I wasn't in Abu Dhabi for the talks here or in Moscow for those talks I know that contrary to what you said Hamas is getting more and more popular actually according to recent polls they want mmud Abbas out clearly according to the Palestinian Center for policy and Survey research uh polling so uh what was the sticking point from abbas's uh uh people in the PLO and fata to not have a unified resistance as you've just outlined is the favorable option so I feel that to be fair and and objective one has to put the blade blame on the political establishment and the leadership the entire leadership and not only on Mahmud Abbas uh so that's number one number two sir I believe that popularity is something fluid uh indications show that for example the Hamas popularity in Gaza has dipped yes it has written risen in the West Bank Etc Palestinians will have difficult to G what it is in Gaza will have a more rational discussion once the the guns have been silenced through the ceasefire and I believe in rationality I believe that Hamas is aware that what we need to achieve is a Palestinian state with Jerusalem as its capital and on both wings of the Palestinian territory in the West Bank and Gaza I believe that fat has been unfairly criticized for 30 years to have been the first to discover what is the seiling of the possible and the permissible and fat was much more mature than others in discovering what is desirable what is possible and what is acceptable and I believe that Hamas Unfortunately they say it with as though they are ashamed of their acceptance of the that seeding of the possible we need statesmanship and maturity and on both sides fat and Hamas will be blamed by sorry you haven't answered what the sticking point could to be more demanding you haven't answered what possibly could be the sticking point from Fat's side as to a unified understand I I think there are certain topics that should be left to after the guns have been silenced and we are a society fight fighting for our existence and surviv Survival let's leave certain topics for discussion is it corruption is it corrupt I mean Edward S uh if he was alive I don't know what he would think that Hamas he was a friend of of mine my friend he I understand that I mean imagine him in a world where Hamas was so much more populated than the hated fata the hated PLO all across the West Bank uh I don't you know it was presumably Corruption of the PLO and the fata movement that has created this situation sah no no fan of the uh underlying principles of Hamas obviously how how has it come to this and when my friend do you think that we have the conditions today for elections in the Palestinian that's what they said that's what they said two years ago look there are reports Netanyahu Netanyahu says he could consider fata and the PLO ruling Gaza after this what left of of Gaza I mean proof in what those reports say that Netanyahu would favor a a fata run Gaza uh no Netanyahu does not favor that my friend you're being very biased and you are entitled to have your own prejudices but I think you are taking too much Liberty in expressing it was in The Times of Israel publicly playing the role of a journalist no no I'm sorry you're you're expressing and you are entitled to your opinion and to your pressure I have no opinion I'm just say the Times of Israel said that natany who as I told you I accuse him of politicide he wants to ex the Palestinian entity whatever it is and uh he would he doesn't favor the return of the Palestinian Authority in Gaza and if I were a Hamas supporter by the way that's the wisest course of action the reconciliation with fat and the Palestinian National Authority administering tomorrow the uh the Gaza Strip do you know how many billions will be needed to rebuild Gaza do you think that the donor countries Arab and others be giving money if ever Hamas is still in power there I don't know population as long as it's democratically elected be the Palestinian Authority as long as it's a democratically elected government they you know at the moment people are friends with the Taliban they were the Shanghai cooperation organization meeting in aana recently just just to uh your skepticism on the Taliban from now yeah anyway just to uh the EU Nations recognizing Palestine in name only a lot of roric I notice whether it be uh that or um uh talking about the IC the EU is the second largest armed supplier to Israel what do you think there's a lot of posing around because they know their populations are seeing these images of of slaughtered children beheaded babies by the British EU and Us weapons that these politicians say We'll recognize Palestine as a state and under under the uh uh table pouring in the weapons to kill the children is that what's going on in Europe where you are we have been telling the Europeans that it's Israel that has reduced their potential role in the Middle East the Europeans wanted to be a player they were allowed by Israel only to be a payer and I kept telling the Europeans that you as Europe are still an actor in search for a role and we in the Middle East we have a role in search for an actor but yes up to now Europe has been disappointing but several countries have had the political Audacity Of recognizing the state of Palestine to the displeasure of Netanyahu it's a diplomatic battle that undertaking you as a journalist you can allow yourself to be totally skeptical we as political militants we need to be optimistic Only Hope can mobilize people and not skepticism and pessimism and just just finally very briefly do you believe a generation of Palestinian survivors will eventually retaliate against those who have armed Israel to carry out the genocide we're seeing on hour well I hope that diplomacy will prevail and I hope that the International Community will succeed in uh helping the local belligerent Parties conflagration and uh I prefer not to enter on against whom should we be retaliating in the future yes there is a lot of anger I keep telling Israelis that we try to play with you winner winner you still want to play with us loser winner loser no Society on Earth accepts and wants to be the Eternal loser and many will have the Samson complex by saying if I am condemned to be the Eternal loser to hell with the temple and done with the pillars I am still in favor sir of winner winner Ambassador thank you and that's it for the show our continued condolences to those bereaved by ukus EU armed genocide we'll be back with a brand new episode on Saturday until then keep in touch VI all our social media if it's not censored in your country and head to our Channel Going Underground TV on rumble.com to watch new and old episodes of Going Underground see you Saturday
