14 Aug 2024 #jamesobrien #Israel #LBC
Amid Israel's ongoing bombardment of Gaza, James O'Brien strongly condemns their actions as 'barbaric' and questions what might come next. This discussion follows the tragic killing of four-day-old twins in an Israeli airstrike while their father was registering their birth. The strike not only took the lives of the newborns— a boy, Asser, and a girl, Ayssel— but also claimed their mother, Arafa, and their grandmother. "It's an absolute abomination," James emphasises. "An atrocity beyond comprehension, further compounded by the support for those responsible." Listen to the full show on Global Player: https://app.af.globalplayer.com/Br0x/... #jamesobrien #Israel #LBC #Gaza #war LBC is the home of live debate around news and current affairs in the UK. Join in the conversation and listen at https://www.lbc.co.uk/ Sign up to LBC’s weekly newsletter here: https://l-bc.co/signup
Transcript
0:00
our eyes have been dragged from Warfare
0:03
in both Ukraine and Russia and Israel
0:07
and Gaza uh and and there are reasons
0:09
for that sometimes I'm afraid fatigue
0:12
plays a part but our attention has been
0:15
dragged back to both theaters in the
0:17
last 24 48 hours and we will be catching
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up with what the latest developments in
0:23
Russia mean uh in the course of this
0:26
program but the first hour is going to
0:28
be dedicated to a combination of stories
0:32
that that not only beg a
0:35
belief but also I think lead inexorably
0:38
to the conclusion that the modern state
0:40
of Israel is now operating with complete
0:44
impunity and barbarity on a scale that I
0:46
cannot quite credit so trigger warnings
0:51
Galore this morning the details of what
0:54
protesters in Israel are seeking to
0:57
defend will I I I don't know what figure
1:01
of speech to use because any traditional
1:03
figure of speech or cliche is going to
1:07
make is going to trivialize the issue I
1:09
I I'll get on to that shortly but I'm
1:12
warning you now it's about as dis it's
1:14
not only the details of the story at the
1:17
heart of the protest are disgusting but
1:20
when I tell you what the protesters are
1:21
actually doing or saying you're not
1:24
going to believe me Bob tells me this is
1:26
called creative avoidance I I like that
1:29
phrase that that's the process that I
1:31
suffer from sometimes when I know I
1:32
should be talking about things but I
1:33
just feel that we've we've talked them
1:35
to death as it were so I'm going to
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begin speaking of death with the tale of
1:40
newborn twins whose father four days
1:43
after their birth went to the local
1:45
government office to register their
1:48
birth um deploying or or or or utilizing
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some of the infrastructure that that
1:53
remains operational in Gaza despite the
1:57
um bombardment to which the region has
1:59
now been exposed for months and months
2:04
um this is in a a region called Dar Al
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Balor I can't do it so 4 days old dad
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goes to the local government office to
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register their birth he is on his way
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back clutching the birth
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certificates when his neighbors call to
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say that his home has been
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bombed he gets home still clutching the
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birth certificates to
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discover that the strike has killed his
2:42
wife his twins his newborn twins and
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their grandmother I don't know what
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happened he said I am told it was a
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shell that hit the house uh the BBC has
2:56
asked the Israeli Army for comment on
2:58
the strike and um um the time of writing
3:03
they were still waiting for a response
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the um Health Ministry in Gaza which you
3:09
are required I think to add is run by
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Hamas says 115 infants have been born
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and killed during the course of this war
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sometimes the stories cut through the
3:21
creative avoidance don't they they cut
3:24
through the
3:26
fatigue
3:28
um and this is one of them Assa and Asel
3:31
a boy and a girl 4 days old father
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Muhammad goes to the local government
3:36
office to register their
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birth and while he's there they're
3:41
killed the
3:44
uh Sky News I don't know if it's right
3:47
to pick up on this stuff I I that is a
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form of fatigue but I I found the
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headline that Sky News deployed on this
3:54
troubling four day old twins killed in
3:56
Gaza air strike as father went to get
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birth certificate killed by who now
4:01
killed by what now oh an air strike
4:04
four- day old twins killed by the
4:05
Israeli Defense Force as father went to
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get birth certificates
4:11
so that story
4:13
is unbearable right but believable
4:17
tragically
4:19
horribly totally believable almost
4:22
perhaps to the point of being unshocking
4:24
you know there are people in Benjamin
4:26
netanyahu's government who have made it
4:28
clear that they don't believe there is
4:29
any such thing as an innocent
4:30
Palestinian there are people in the UK
4:32
media who've come perilously close to
4:35
making that point publicly uh so much so
4:38
in fact that I am 100% certain that they
4:41
are making that point
4:44
privately I
4:48
also have to now draw your attention to
4:51
another story which
4:53
is I
4:55
think although nobody has died in some
4:58
ways it's even
5:00
worse and this is a story about a
5:03
protest continuing protests at um uh
5:09
well in in Israel where
5:15
essentially protesters politicians and
5:18
TV
5:19
commentators are defending the right of
5:22
soldiers to mistreat and even and this
5:26
is where the trigger warnings come in
5:28
rape Palestinian prisoners in detention
5:31
now I first saw
5:33
this on the AL jazer channel the AL
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jaera English Channel which
5:40
is one of the outlets that still manages
5:43
to have reporters on the ground in Gaza
5:45
of
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course
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uh that is not something that many
5:50
British news organizations are able to
5:52
do because Israel won't let them and
5:55
because Al jazer is Qatari owned and
5:59
clearly has as an editorial slant you
6:02
you I I tread carefully whether I should
6:04
or not I don't know but the report that
6:06
I saw was absolutely clear because it it
6:10
it includes footage
6:11
from Israeli television it includes
6:14
footage of Israeli politicians it
6:17
includes the Twitter feeds of uh Israeli
6:21
public figures and the contention of
6:25
these protesters Grew From reports of
6:30
IDF soldiers army reservists a leaked
6:33
video and this is the biggest trigger
6:35
warning of
6:36
all a leaked video
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of Israeli
6:44
soldiers torturing and
6:48
raping a Palestinian prisoner in
6:50
circumstances that I don't think I can
6:52
legally share fully with you at 12
6:55
minutes after 10 on a British on a
6:56
regulated British radio station I don't
6:59
think I can give you the details I can
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tell you that the video uh has been
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broadcast I can tell you that the place
7:06
where this torture took place was and
7:08
I'll probably mispronounce it stay Taman
7:10
it's two words sde new word t i m a an
7:14
thousands of detainees from the Gaza
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Strip were brought there after Mass
7:18
arrests by
7:20
soldiers um this is from haret an
7:23
Israeli newspaper over a 100 years old
7:27
and they have reported that very slowly
7:30
the full dimensions of the horror
7:32
emerged State Aon was a place where the
7:34
most horrible torture we had ever seen
7:36
was
7:37
occurring um the testimonies from people
7:40
serving at the facility or from inmates
7:42
who had been released were frightening
7:44
this included inhumane conditions and
7:45
abuse including sexual abuse sleep
7:47
deprivation the playing of Extremely
7:49
Loud Music for long stretches and severe
7:51
physical violence it's not for nothing
7:52
that state Aon has been called the
7:54
Israeli
7:56
Guantanamo but it gets worse
8:01
the video of
8:03
soldiers apparently raping a prisoner in
8:08
this Detention Center has prompted
8:13
protests in
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defense of the
8:19
soldiers I'll say that again in defense
8:23
of the
8:24
soldiers supporters of the Israeli
8:27
government or elements of the Israeli
8:29
government
8:30
up to and including Israeli politicians
8:32
made their way to where they thought the
8:34
soldiers were being
8:36
held and tried to affect their
8:40
release I I'll say that again a mob of
8:44
Israeli protesters made its way to the
8:46
facility where they thought the soldiers
8:49
filmed apparently raping a prisoner were
8:52
being held and they sought to
8:55
illegally affect their release the
8:59
soldiers have now been released I think
9:01
all of them have now been placed under
9:02
house arrest they've been released from
9:04
the um military incarceration and and
9:08
placed under house arrest and protesters
9:11
shouting this is Sodom an Old Testament
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reference of course to the cities of
9:16
Sodom and Gomorrah are arguing publicly
9:20
that Israeli soldiers should be able to
9:21
mistreat Palestinian detes however they
9:25
want this is part of the defense of the
9:28
same soldiers who were arrested for the
9:33
abuse of the male Palestinian prisoner
9:36
at the state aiman base and Israel is
9:39
our
9:41
Ally uh as I say the reservists I think
9:44
have now been released certainly some of
9:47
them have put into house arrest and
9:49
politicians and journalists have have
9:50
joined in so here is an Israeli
9:52
journalist called Yehuda Schlesinger
9:54
filmed on Israeli television I I stress
9:57
that point this is from last week
9:59
uh he says I don't give a rat's ass what
10:02
they do speaking of the soldiers uh to
10:04
that Hamas man speaking of the prisoner
10:07
I always remember first of all the only
10:09
problem for me
10:11
here is that it's not a regulated policy
10:15
of the state to abuse the
10:18
detainees a stone Cold War crime which
10:20
he thinks should actually be uh legally
10:23
ratified in Israel because he says first
10:26
they deserve it and it's great Revenge
10:29
that we should give them so the idea
10:31
that Israeli uh atrocities enjoy support
10:36
from public figures up to and including
10:39
the point where they claim that they
10:40
have every right to be every bit as uh
10:43
abominable and barbaric as H Hamas
10:47
members were on the October the 7th
10:50
terror attack has become completely
10:52
irrefutable he adds that it may also
10:54
serve as a deterrent um he has since
10:59
called his comments a mistake so it
11:01
would appear that there is still uh a
11:04
point Beyond which Israeli public
11:06
figures are currently not prepared to go
11:09
Israel's Channel 12 aired a leaked video
11:12
of the alleged assault again I stress
11:14
that in case you're thinking of wasting
11:15
time telling me not to trust Al jazer so
11:18
Israel's own channel 12 AED a leaked
11:21
video of the alleged assault prompting
11:24
bezel smotrich who remains a member of
11:26
Benjamin netanyahu's government to say
11:30
that those who leaked the video should
11:32
be prosecuted and not the
11:36
soldiers those who leaked the video
11:39
should be
11:40
prosecuted and not the soldiers filmed
11:43
in the video apparently raping a
11:46
prisoner uh the national security
11:49
minister I'll say that again the
11:50
national security minister itamar Ben
11:54
gavier has been filmed stating that any
11:56
action any action is permissible if it
12:00
is done for the sake of National
12:02
Security bearing in mind that the victim
12:04
in this footage is already in
12:07
prison so quite how any case can be made
12:11
for claiming that it was
12:12
somehow I mean how can a sexual assault
12:15
ever be in the interests of National
12:19
Security Israel's own high
12:21
court has been hijacked by supporters of
12:25
the
12:26
soldiers filmed apparently ing a
12:30
prisoner uh they arrived
12:32
there to uh resist a petition to close
12:38
down the base where it happened they
12:41
heckled judges they heckled the
12:45
courtroom and I don't know if I'm the
12:48
first person to bring this story to your
12:50
attention I've got a horrible feeling I
12:52
am and yet of course when details
12:55
subsequently
12:57
disputed of the October the 7th atrocity
13:01
in Israel undertaken by Hamas were first
13:05
reported some some of those reports
13:07
subsequently turned out not to be true
13:09
but there are obviously a catalog of
13:12
disgusting conduct every tea was crossed
13:15
every eye was dotted the pro the the the
13:19
level of reporting the scale of
13:21
reporting was
13:23
extraordinary uh I I was personally
13:26
constantly being um exalted to to watch
13:30
hideous footage to cover on my show all
13:33
of the long after Israel had started
13:36
exacting its bloody re Revenge upon
13:38
entirely innocent Palestinians I was
13:40
under constant um rhetorical bombardment
13:44
to talk more about the uh subsequently
13:48
disputed or disproved details of
13:50
elements of that horrible attack and yet
13:52
I am probably the first person to bring
13:55
this to your attention I understand why
13:59
people who have been somewhat uh
14:02
unquestioning in their support of Israel
14:04
over the years and over recent months
14:07
aren't talking about it but I don't
14:08
really understand why the rest of us
14:10
aren't I don't really understand why it
14:13
is um it's not creative avoidance is it
14:16
Bob it's something else I to speak for
14:20
myself I feel
14:22
sick and I don't like feeling sick and
14:25
that will be part of the reason why I
14:27
could have talked myself out of doing
14:29
this
14:32
today but what's happened here now is
14:38
that media
14:40
querulousness and epic double
14:46
standards have gifted the modern state
14:50
of Israel the government of Benjamin
14:52
Netanyahu an almost
14:56
unbelievable impunity
15:00
to the point where Israeli citizens
15:03
politicians and public
15:06
figures when presented with evidence of
15:08
a prisoner being
15:13
raped protest the
15:16
prosecution of the
15:18
rapists a national security minister
15:21
responds to the leaking of footage
15:24
depicting the rape of a prisoner by
15:27
calling for the people who leave the
15:29
footage to be prosecuted while a mob
15:31
arrives at the prison where they believe
15:33
the rapists are being held demanding
15:36
their
15:37
release and of all the
15:41
times I have sat here and said to you I
15:45
cannot make sense of this story this is
15:48
by some
15:50
distance the best example of
15:54
that an absolute abomination
15:59
an atrocity
16:01
beyond my
16:03
comprehension but compounded by public
16:07
support for the
16:09
culprits and if you cast your mind back
16:12
to October of last year when it was
16:16
almost a capital offense to point out
16:19
that the Palestinian people in Gaza had
16:21
legitimate grievances about their
16:23
historical treatment without even
16:25
flirting with the notion of of Defending
16:28
or condoning in any way the barbarism of
16:31
the terrorists on that day
16:34
nobody who takes money on a monthly
16:38
basis to comment upon current affairs
16:40
has to the best of my knowledge
16:43
publicly
16:45
revoked their support for Israel
16:47
publicly acknowledged that things have
16:49
now gone to a point that they cannot
16:51
credit and cannot even begin to condone
16:54
they have all gone
16:57
silent and I don't understand why
17:00
because look let me show you how easy it
17:01
is this is barbarism this is inhumanity
17:06
on a scale that I thought had been
17:08
consigned to the history books this is
17:11
behavior so disgusting so despicable
17:16
that just when you think you might have
17:19
got your head around it along come
17:22
protesters demanding the
17:25
release of the
17:27
culprits so how did this happen
