Will the Middle East erupt into a widespread, large-scale regional war after the Israeli government assassinated senior leaders of Hamas and Hezbollah?
Brian is joined by Mohammad Marandi to get insight into what’s happening in Tehran. He is an expert on American studies and teaches at the University of Tehran.
Please make an urgently-needed contribution to The Socialist Program by joining our Patreon community at patreon.com/thesocialistprogram. We rely on the generous support of our listeners to keep bringing you consistent, high-quality shows. All Patreon donors of $5 a month or more are invited to join and submit questions to the monthly Q&A seminar with Brian.
Transcript
0:01
we need a new system we need a new Society we need to demand that which may
0:06
have sounded impossible even a few weeks ago but is not only realizable but an
0:12
imperative
0:19
[Music] necessity is the Middle East poised to
0:27
erupt into a widespread large scale Regional war after the Israeli
0:34
government assassinated senior leaders of Hamas and Hezbollah welcome to the
0:39
Socialist program I'm your host Brian Becker today we're talking with Professor Muhammad Mandi Muhammad is a
0:47
professor at tyan University he's an expert on American studies Muhammad
0:52
welcome back thank you very much for having me uh Muhammad I'm looking at the Wall
0:59
Street Journal today it says in Israel support grows for offensive against
1:06
Hezbollah uh so some part of the Israeli establishment and apparently the Israeli
1:11
population prefers to have a war uh with Lebanon uh anyway this all follows the
1:19
assassination of isal hania the senior of Hamas leader who was The
1:25
Negotiator uh on the Gaza War he was murdered the day day or the night he
1:32
attended uh the Presidential Inauguration in your country in Iran uh obviously the Le the Israeli
1:41
government uh was trying to provoke something or send a message and the
1:47
whole world is waiting right now to see whether Iran and Hezbollah will
1:52
respond uh will Iran respond Iran will definitely respond it
1:59
has no option but to respond uh if the Iranians show
2:07
restraint then the Israeli regime will carry out another attack in future and
2:14
kill more people and that will be unacceptable to ordinary Iranians and then we're going to have to hit the
2:19
Israeli regime even harder so it's best to uh strike the regime and create
2:25
deterrence now uh in April when the Israeli regime bombed the Iranian uh
2:34
Consulate in Damascus and murdered 12 people uh the Iranians
2:42
retaliated uh because they had no option back then either if the Iranians had not
2:48
struck the Israeli regime the Israelis would have bombed more
2:53
embassies and especially when we saw how in April after the strike on the Iranian Embassy the uh Iranians took the matter
3:01
to the UN Security Council and the Americans the British the French they supported the Israeli regime and so did
3:07
the Germans in other words they supported the bombing of the Iranian Embassy so when the West is supporting a
3:14
holocaust when the West is supporting the bombing of embassies when it's supporting the bombing of neighboring
3:21
countries like Lebanon there's really no option left but to uh defend your
3:28
sovereignty uh Through Your Own Strength when the Israelis uh bombed The
3:35
Diplomatic compound of Iran that led to that retaliation a few months ago it was
3:41
pretty quick it was within a few days but now weeks have passed or a couple weeks have passed since the targeted
3:49
killing of hania again in Iran in an Iranian
3:55
building uh violating clearly violating Iranian sovereignty not only in Act of
4:00
international lawlessness in terms of targeted assassinations but violating Iran's sovereignty but still uh there's
4:08
this feeling that something big is about to happen but I would have said A week
4:14
ago something big was about to happen a week ago but it hasn't happened what's the
4:19
calculation there are many calculations I'm sure but a part of it is psychological
4:25
warfare and uh part of it is uh political calculations Iran wants to uh
4:34
make the Israeli regime wait it causes a lot of damage to the economy flights to
4:41
and from Tel Aviv have um stopped for the most part and there are other
4:47
problems that have been created for Israeli society as a result of this weight as well uh also the Iranians want
4:56
to speak to all of their neighbors their friends their allies to make sure that they understand the
5:04
situation that this is not an escalation that's being carried out by Iran or
5:09
that's being brought about by Iran this is an escalation that the Israeli regime has brought about and the Iranians are
5:16
responding the Iranians want their friends and neighbors to understand that
5:21
the United States Britain France Germany they are encouraging the Israeli regime to carry out these strikes uh because
5:29
when they do they condemn Iran we saw a joint statement by the US France England
5:36
and the Italians uh where they uh spoke of Iranian
5:43
aggression right after the the murder of Mr is Han in tan so this is the upside
5:52
down world that the West has created for uh the International Community and the
5:59
Irani Ians need to make sure that everyone recognizes what sort of disinformation
6:05
the Americans Western media Western diplomats Western politicians are uh
6:13
spreading uh and uh to respond adequately so that if there is an
6:18
escalation if the Israeli regime does the foolish thing and strikes again uh
6:25
and expands the war then people know who uh caus this catastrophe and what
6:34
countries are responsible well let's uh talk about psychological War a little bit more
6:41
because uh obviously all sides are engaged in some psychological
6:46
maneuvering in any military confrontation or the runup to a military
6:51
confrontation I mentioned in the beginning this Wall Street Journal article that's right it's today it's as
6:57
we're speaking it came out a couple hours ago in Israel support grows for an
7:03
offensive attack against Hezbollah now they know that this would
7:08
be a big war obviously Hezbollah is much stronger than it was in 2006 when the
7:14
Israelis failed to realize their military objectives in that war between
7:20
Lebanon and Israel the a provoked a started by by the Israeli regime Israel
7:27
killed a lot of people in Lebanon they used anti Personnel weapons cluster bombs which are war crimes
7:33
inherently uh but they didn't succeed but here you have this article saying yeah we're ready we're ready to go uh
7:40
we're getting ready and then they make the point in the article that the only
7:46
thing that the Israelis are waiting for is for Hezbollah or Iran to strike first
7:53
and then the Israelis can uh camouflage their war with Lebanon as a defense of
7:59
reaction so get the other guy to shoot first basically uh essentially the same line
8:05
the US used when it massively invaded Korea in 1950 it said oh the North
8:11
Koreans shot first and then the US went in and carpet bombed the whole country
8:16
uh anyway I want to get your thoughts uh is this Wall Street Journal article
8:21
reflecting a real thing or is it too part of psychological warfare the Western media in general uh
8:30
is on the side of the Israelis and they as we all know are hiding the holocost
8:38
in Gaza they are justifying the Israelis all of these media Outlets if you recall
8:44
I'm sure you recall on October the 7th and after October the 7th they were repeating the lies about beheaded babies
8:51
and rapes but now when we're seeing uh so many Palestinian uh children being beheaded
9:00
uh by Israeli bombs and while we're seeing so many Palestinians in prison
9:07
being raped we see utter indifference to these uh very racist uh media Outlets so
9:14
the Wall Street Journal I believe has zero credibility when it comes to this
9:19
there this is not going to deter Hezbollah nor is it going to deter Iran
9:26
uh Hezbollah is already at war with the Israeli regime and the Israelis have failed uh just as they failed in Gaza
9:33
and I think the Israeli regime knows quite well that if they cannot win in Gaza they definitely cannot win an
9:40
expanded war with Hezbollah Hezbollah is uh far more powerful than Hamas and
9:47
Islamic Jihad and the other groups in Palestine combined and hisbah has uh far
9:53
more advanced weapons and on the other hand Iran is uh much more powerful than
9:59
this regime the only thing that keeps this uh War Machine in t Aviv running is
10:06
constant help from the United States and Europe they constantly provide
10:11
ammunition new weapons financial support political cover and uh that's why they
10:19
continue to fight otherwise the war would have been uh over a long time ago
10:24
the genocide would have been over a long time ago the Europeans The Americans
10:30
uh the Western media Western politicians and Western Elites and
10:36
diplomats all of them are a part of this genocide they've all played their role
10:41
in helping the Israeli regime carry out this genocide and it is really unforgivable what they've done but as I
10:49
said this uh has no impact uh on the ground the Iranians will respond and
10:56
Hezbollah will respond one of the um one of the things that's
11:02
happening at least Muhammad here in the United States we've been organizing massive protests almost every
11:09
day you know since since October 8th since the Israeli um genocide started against the
11:16
people of Gaza we had a major disruption of netanyahu's speech on July 24th when
11:22
he came and disgracefully spoke before both houses of Congress the police were
11:27
out there unlike January 6 the police in front of the capital they were attacking us they were beating people they were
11:33
pepper spraying people they were arresting people and since then uh the protests have been completely demonized
11:40
in the media all the Republicans are calling for Congressional investigations against the organizers saying you know
11:46
this terrible thing happened on July 24th when in fact the protesters were
11:51
the victims of police violence again another indication of a media world that's turned basically upside down
11:58
where the victim is made out to be the the victimizer but inside this movement
12:04
there's lots of discussion that the Iranians have held
12:09
back or Hezbollah has held back from retaliating uh because uh there's behind
12:16
the scenes negotiations going on and that Iran is prepared to possibly not
12:23
retaliate or retaliate in a minor way in exchange for a US broker peace deal in
12:30
Gaza that's a lot of people are talking about this and I want to get your take on it and then yesterday yesterday the
12:37
White House announced that they they've authorized the sale of 20 billion dollar
12:42
more in arms to the Israeli government so then if you think like the US is
12:48
really putting a lot of pressure on Israel on Netanyahu to stop uh The Killing Spree in Gaza to come to the
12:55
table and that they're working hard behind the scenes with the and the Lebanese even the people who are
13:02
their adversaries to make this quidd proquo Grand deal uh anyway I want to
13:08
get your thoughts is this real uh what's your view of all of this obviously this 20 billion sale is
13:17
not really a sale the Israeli regime doesn't have 20 billion do to give these are all gifts that the US government is
13:25
going to be giving to the Israeli regime and the money is going to be uh it's
13:30
going to come out of the uh American uh taxpayers pocket without a
13:37
doubt uh the uh Iranians know quite well
13:42
that uh the United States is not sincere it's not an honest broker the United States is a part of this Holocaust this
13:49
Holocaust is being carried out with us support the US president the Secretary
13:54
of State the uh the whole of the
13:59
uh Senate and the and Congress they are all uh a part of this they are all
14:05
partners in crime so nothing that they say really matters obviously Iran
14:11
supports a permanent ceas fire that meets the needs of the Palestinians that
14:18
is acceptable to Hamas and the resistance and Iran will support that
14:24
but Iran will strike at Israel there's no doubt about that there's no going back the Israeli regime carried out a
14:32
strike on Iran violated the country's sovereignty murdered a high ranking
14:38
official a foreign official and a close friend of uh Iran and it they murdered
14:47
him in a guest house in a in an official guest house where foreign leaders stay
14:54
in foreign presidents foreign prime ministers foreign ministers and uh special
15:03
envoys it is a well-known building so uh the the Israelis insulted the dignity
15:10
and the honor of the Iranian people for for murdering their guests while that
15:15
guest was in tan there's no way that the Israeli regime will escape that in
15:21
addition in in its strike on Beirut the Israelis targeted a civilian building
15:28
they targeted the capital and that was a red line so if Iran or Hezbollah do not
15:35
respond that is only going to make this Rogue regime more aggressive so there is
15:41
really no Escape for the regime There's No Escape for the Americans and the Europeans uh the regime has to uh be
15:49
punished and if the Americans and the Europeans don't want a regional war or further escalation then they should uh
15:58
yank card on their uh on the leash of uh
16:05
Netanyahu all right I want to talk to you Muhammad now for especially for Americans to understand the mood in in
16:12
tyan you had a recent election again in the US the media says oh Iran is an
16:19
autocratic regime it's a dictatorship and yet you have regular elections they're highly
16:24
contested uh you know people from different political trends uh take turns
16:30
basically in terms of who's the the head of government depending on the election outcome uh another words you have a
16:37
democratic system uh it's a it's an Iranian democratic system it's not the same as the US where right now my
16:45
friends who are running as independent socialists are being uh legally challenged in state after state by the
16:51
Democratic party trying to evict third party candidates the anti-genocide candidates are trying to be evicted so
16:58
you know that's different that's that's American democracy um and these are people who
17:03
have met all of the standards to Beyond but I want to talk about the mood in Iran when you strike a foreign official
17:10
a guest of the government on the day that he's there welcoming uh or commemorating the
17:17
inauguration of the new president of Iran uh it just seems that it would have
17:22
to have this amazing impact on public Consciousness here's I got a CNN clip
17:28
that happened right after uh and I want to play it because I want Americans to
17:33
see uh I want Americans to hear what you are feeling you meaning collectively you
17:39
the the Iranian people but first let's play this CNN clip and just for people in America to get a sense of what what
17:46
this assassination meant you very much have a region on the
17:53
edge Jessica people waiting with beaded breath to see what the response what retaliation will look like if I can just
18:00
pull up those images again of this massive funeral procession this massive
18:05
service held in tahan today with is hana's uh casket being carried through
18:11
the crowds right in the main city center and I want to show you those pictures once more because there is a message in
18:18
those images from tan Iran is clearly saying you did not just kill hania
18:23
because remember they are accusing Israel which has neither confirmed nor denied this assassination it is saying
18:29
you have messed with Iran at large you have violated the sovereignty of this country and Iran's supreme leader has
18:36
promised has vowed to fight back to retaliate uh it's unusual uh that
18:43
there's any kind of even sense in the tone and tenor of objectivity but anyway
18:49
uh let's talk about the mood in tan that day and since well we you saw uh the funeral
18:58
perhaps millions of people went to the streets of tan and uh that was for not an
19:06
Iranian uh public figure that was for a Palestinian public figure so you can
19:13
understand the outrage that exists in tan as I was saying earlier this was an
19:20
insult not just to Iranian honor and dignity uh but also a very close friend
19:26
of the Iranian people is uh is considered to be a martyr in
19:32
Iran he's a he fought for the freedom of his people people who've been under subjugation since 1948 officially not
19:42
just in Gaza and the West Bank but throughout Palestine these are people in the in Gaza are largely Exiles from
19:49
their homes in Palestine the same is true in the West Bank and the same is
19:55
true for the millions of Palestinians living in refugee camps in Syria in
20:00
Lebanon in Jordan and uh people who Palestinians who are living across the
20:06
world in Exile so uh there's really no way for the Israeli regime to escape the
20:13
United States and the Europeans they cannot speak about uh fearing escalation
20:19
when they are the cause of escalation they are the ones who are enabling this Holocaust they are the ones who are
20:26
enabling the bombing of Lebanon the bomb Bing of Syria the bombing of Syria has been going on for years that the West
20:32
does not say anything for them it's fine for the Israelis to bomb Syria whenever they want and the uh the the attack on
20:40
an Iranian Embassy building something that's never happened before in the history of modern diplomacy only once
20:47
did the United States bomb the Chinese Embassy killing three people in
20:53
Yugoslavia or or Serbia and the Americans said it was a mistake even
20:58
though No One Believes it but in this case the Israeli regime used Two fighter
21:05
jets to level the Iranian uh consulate building killing 12
21:11
people and the West supports it so they cannot come to Iran and complain about
21:18
uh Iran's so-called potential as they put in their statement or When They
21:24
carried out the assassination of isma Han they did it in a in a in an
21:30
official uh Guest House a guest house where presidents and prime ministers stay in other other officials were in
21:37
that guest house during the inauguration and they did it as you pointed out during right after the inaugural
21:43
ceremony where is Han he hugged the president this was a personal insult to
21:50
the Iranian president but with regards to Iranian freedom and democracy there's always this Paradox in the west they
21:56
choose a narrative that suits their purpose one day I recall in in a couple
22:03
of decades ago when they wanted to antagonize Ahmed NAD they said he's a
22:09
threat to the world whereas and in another occasion they'll say that the
22:15
president has no Authority well if if a president has no Authority then how could the president be an Iranian
22:22
president be a threat to the world these contradictions and narratives show that they are completely dishonest whatever
22:29
they say about Iran in Iran there's more diversity and more debate in politics
22:36
and there's there there's more openness in politics than in the united states in the United States your people's choices
22:43
between Trump and Clinton Trump and Harris Trump and Biden if that's a if
22:51
that's a democracy well then I think uh we should just um move on to some other
22:59
means of governance I want to ask your opinion about and this is also perplexing for a
23:06
lot of people in the United States a lot of people think like why is the United States so tied to the hip with the
23:14
Israeli regime I mean you have hundreds of millions of Arabs uh in different
23:20
governments in different countries some of them are progressive or part of the axis of resistance against imperialism
23:28
some are collaborators but nonetheless uh even those governments those monarchies they can't completely
23:34
ignore public opinion it exists and there's hundreds of millions of Arab people and other peoples in the Middle
23:41
East like people in Iran who are not Arab um and other peoples but then you
23:48
have the small Israeli state that declares itself as a a theocracy a
23:53
Jewish State meaning uh everybody else it has second class citizenship rights
24:00
or no rights uh why is the US so connected to the Israeli regime why does the US
24:07
government if it wants to prevent Regional war is sending 2020 billion um to Israel yesterday or
24:14
authorizing it uh why is the United States now sent warships into the into
24:21
the Middle East submarines that have huge uh killing capabilities I mean with
24:27
multiple independ re-entry vehicles that you know one submarine can take out 20
24:32
cities why why and of course there are different explanations one some people
24:38
say it's the Jewish Lobby some people say it's an extension Israel functions as an extension of American power in
24:45
this important region I want to get your view why and the view of Iranians why do
24:51
Irani are Iranians perplexed or thinking clearly or is there a Divergent opinion
24:57
about why the is so fastened to the Israeli regime I think the Iranians know much
25:05
more about the United States than people in the United States know about Iran for many reasons uh English is a second
25:11
language in Iran many people uh have relatives in in Western countries uh
25:19
many academics travel to Western countries for conferences or for sabatical and many have studied there so
25:27
uh ignorance the sort of ignorance that people in the United States have about Iran and Elites uh that is I think not
25:36
that's not the case for Iran I wouldn't say it's the Jewish Lobby um I would say
25:42
it's the Zionist Lobby uh in Iran we have Jews as I'm sure you know we have a
25:48
Jewish Community we have kosher restaurants we have synagogues uh what the what people here
25:55
are opposed to are is Zionism not Judaism in the United States in in in the west
26:00
the problem is is Zionism it's the Zionist Lobby uh the Zionist Lobby is is
26:06
of course it's it's comprised of Christians Jews and and people who are
26:11
secular but it is a supremacist ideology and uh they are what uh allows the
26:18
Israeli regime to cre to carry out these uh these attrocities and these uh and
26:25
and the ongoing uh genocide in Gaza uh the United States uh does not benefit
26:31
from the existence of Israel have no doubt about that there could have there could be a case made that during the
26:37
Cold War uh Israel had benefits for the United States and it was it used Israel
26:43
to project power in our region now whether that's a valid argument or not that's debatable I think both sides of
26:49
the argument can make a case regardless of the immorality of aarte back then and
26:55
the immorality of us politics just like in South South Africa perhaps uh South Africa and Rhodesia had served purposes
27:03
for the United States but they were immoral and therefore
27:08
unacceptable uh their existence whether they did serve a purpose or not but now
27:14
there's no doubt that the Israeli regime is simply a burden the existence of the Israeli
27:22
regime is detrimental to the interests of Western regimes uh they the the the Israeli
27:29
regime every all the atrocities that it's carrying out all of the aggression that it's carrying out is being done in
27:35
the name of the West the West has destroyed its credibility across our region and I
27:42
would argue across the global South and even in the eyes of much of their own
27:47
population in Western countries because of their support for the Holocaust because of their support for their
27:53
constant support for this Rogue regime not just ordinary support the fact that they enable these atrocities they enable
28:01
the Holocaust they give them weapons ammunition funding and political support
28:07
all of this just has destroyed the image of the West especially over the last year across the global South in future
28:15
Western countries will never be able to speak about human rights they can never speak about human rights in North Korea
28:21
let alone P or Russia or elsewhere because everyone knows that the West is
28:26
responsible for what's going on in Gaza and it is particularly harmful for the West because this is being carried out
28:34
in front of a global audience it is being carried out live this is the first
28:39
Holocaust or genocide that's people are seeing happen right in front of their eyes and across the global South it has
28:47
a special uh impact because people across the global South see their own
28:53
history right at taking uh when they they recall their own history the they
28:59
re they recall what they've read in their history books about their own past about how in the 18th or 17th or 19th or
29:06
20th century Europeans or or the Americans plundered their country destroyed their countries raped and
29:13
pillaged and took away their resources people in in the the subcontinent people
29:19
in East Asia PE people in West Asia across Africa across Latin America they
29:24
see themselves they see their their their an ancestors when or they recall
29:30
their their their own ancestors when they see the the rape of Palestinian men taking place amidst Western silence when
29:37
they see children and women being slaughtered day and night in front of the eyes of the world so the West is
29:44
being demolished I mean we have we since the since the September the 11 and the
29:53
beginning of these endless Wars the United States has quickened its decline
29:58
the wars have been a strong Catalyst and I would argue so has the liberal neoliberalism that they engaged in after
30:07
the collapse of the Soviet Union but that's that's a different story but the endless Wars acted as a catalyst to
30:14
bring about the decline and I think that the war in Ukraine being a much larger War and the genocide in Gaza these two
30:22
combined along with the escalation with China and other parts of the world this is quickening the pace even further and
30:31
it and it is uh as I said economically the West is on the decline militarily
30:36
the West is on the decline but it but the only thing the West really had left the only thing it had going for it due
30:43
to its immense Media power and the and the impact of the Legacy Med media was
30:50
an image a fake image a facade in my opinion but the mask but that mask has
30:56
been removed because people are seeing in front of their eyes what the West is doing to Gaza this is not just about
31:02
Israel this is about the collective West they're the ones who are carrying out this genocide they are the ones who are
31:09
engaging in this Holocaust uh directly or indirectly and I think that uh this
31:15
is something that uh will be remembered for many many years to
31:21
come I want to pick up on that same theme with you Muhammad uh let's go back
31:26
we can do a survey and I think it's useful for people watching this show or listening to the podcast version of the
31:32
show you mentioned September 11th and now that that's an important marker in a
31:37
way uh because then the US officially declared the war on terror so called
31:44
it's really a banner not anything else a slogan but it announced a new foreign
31:50
policy in the Middle East and the us immediately invaded Afghanistan two years later invaded
31:58
Iraq uh during the so-called Arab Spring uh it launched basically used it as a
32:05
pretext to launch a war against the government in in Tripoli the Libyan government uh under the egis of the un
32:13
uh protecting civilians was the noble cause for that intervention that bombed Libya
32:19
mercilessly then it moved on to the war against Syria the proxy war but a very
32:26
real big war and US troops as you mentioned are still in Syria illegally
32:31
because the Syrian government doesn't want them there uh you know the Taliban was the
32:38
Taliban also also the also Latin America constantly the the coup in Bolivia just
32:45
just recently I was in uh Venezuela for the elections I was a uh I I was there
32:52
to uh to to uh as as a as an observer
32:58
like uh roughly a thousand other people and uh it was clear before the election
33:03
that the United States was going to try to undermine the country they were uh
33:08
basically saying that the opposition is going to have a huge Victory and that if
33:14
they don't win there it's going to be fraud and then immediately after the election it was clear that they were go there was going to be unrest and as and
33:21
then the Western media immediately after the election were they were using headlines speaking of Fraud and it
33:27
reminded me of the coup in Bolivia where after the election they immediately said
33:32
it was fraud They carried out a coup and then they admitted later on that this there was no fraud unfortunately the
33:39
people revolted and brought came and brought their government back to power but the point is that the United States
33:44
has undermined countries across Latin America just as they've done in North Africa and West Asia what they've done
33:50
to Syria is what they would like to do to Venezuela but in but the the harm
33:56
that they've done to Venezuela is enormous they've sanctioned the people in the country they've hurt people
34:03
immensely many have died as a result but ironically ironically the West is also
34:08
hurting itself all these people that uh are immigrating to the United States or
34:13
leaving Latin America for the United States why are they leaving why are they leaving their homes it's because their
34:18
lives have been destroyed due to US policy I'm not saying everyone but at Le I'm without a doubt the majority of them
34:26
uh for the majority of them that's the case and that's caused a crisis in the United States a political crisis the
34:32
same is true in Europe they've destroyed North they've destroyed Libya so you have a a flood of refugees from Africa
34:40
going into Europe they brought it upon themselves the war in Syria they they engaged in a dirty war tried to
34:46
overthrow the government they say that President Assad killed 500,000 of his own people it's nonsense they killed
34:53
500,000 syrians by creating Isis and Al-Qaeda and AAL Islam and all these
34:59
other terrorist organizations thus destroying the country what happened though you had millions of people leave
35:05
Syria for turkey turkey is now paying the price for supporting terrorism then
35:11
also huge numbers went to Europe they are paying the price for their support for Isis and Al-Qaeda and other Terror
35:18
organizations so the United States and the Europeans by imposing suffering on
35:23
people across the world they too are now paying the price for their own
35:29
policies those are excellent points and there are just for our viewers 60 million people that's the estimate 60
35:36
million people in the world today are on the Move meaning they are refugees they have to leave their home either because
35:43
of these wars dislocation economic sanctions uh in some cases climate
35:48
catastrophe but they're on the Move that's a lot of people that's the most since the end of World War II when all
35:55
of Europe and big parts of Asia were destroyed destroyed uh so you're absolutely right and I want to go back
36:01
though Muhammad to the one of the points that I was kind of getting at in which you actually Amplified by expanding the
36:07
topic to the to Latin America the US in in the case of the invasion of
36:12
Afghanistan the US lost the war to the Taliban and the Taliban had basically
36:18
offered to surrender they offered uh the us through a third party to Donald Rumsfeld that they would in exchange for
36:25
amnesty they would lay down their arms to which Rumsfeld said we don't negotiate with terrorists and 20 years
36:32
later the US was driven from Afghanistan and the Taliban is now the government so
36:37
here's U all of these initiatives are failure failure failure and more failure
36:42
and then all of this attendant crisis inside Western countries now Obama I
36:48
think Obama and this is where I was going with this and I want to get your opinion on it Obama when he announced
36:54
the pivot to Asia in 2011 I think geost strategically he was part
37:00
of a trend within the US ruling class that said being bogged down in Endless losing Wars uh in the Middle East in
37:08
particular uh has allowed China to rise peacefully we need to get over to the Pacific and harass and contain China so
37:15
we have to redeploy we have to redeploy American Air Force assets and Naval
37:20
assets and then fact that's what they've done uh so the US according Obama was
37:26
like let's stop him having endless war in the Middle East and here we are 13
37:31
years later the US has sent a lot of forces to the pafic but it's bogged down
37:37
an endless war in the Middle East I mean and again you would think geost strategically this would have made sense
37:44
Obama's position kind of made sense from the point of view of the Empire but they couldn't Implement in fact when when
37:51
Trump comes in he rips up the Iran nuclear arms deal as we know it in the west um creating more crisis and Biden
37:59
who's not a republican not Trump he comes in and he says yeah let's keep that same policy essentially anyway it's
38:07
hard to make heads or tails out of it given the seeming omnipotence of American power military power economic
38:14
power as you mentioned soft power uh all of it it seems like a jumbled mess and
38:20
there is in fact no real leadership able to help the US uh move out of the the
38:27
country itions and in fact they're just bogged down yes and uh while I don't support
38:33
the notion of pivot to Asia because I don't see us policy as being uh
38:39
constructive in in in Asia and in East Asia and the US policy towards China is
38:46
only going to create catastrophe later on just as it's over their policy in Ukraine has created a catastrophe in
38:53
their policy in our region has created a catastrophe in their policy in Latin America has created a catastrophe and
38:59
their policy in Africa has created a catastrophe however this goes back to the point that you raised earlier about
39:06
the role of Israel is is the Israeli regime an asset and uh I think the
39:12
response is clear if the United States wants to Pivot Asia again not a policy
39:17
that I approve of or you approve of that mentality is uh the wrong sort of
39:23
mentality but let's say that uh it is a it is what needs to be done uh in
39:30
accordance with American global strategy well the Israelis are preventing it it
39:37
is the Israeli regime's uh constant aggression against Palestinians and
39:42
Regional countries that has forced the the United States and Europeans well not forced them to but it has made them
39:48
spend uh tens of billions of dollars probably hundreds of billions of dollars to pump up the regime to keep it uh
39:57
alive and and uh and US resources from across the globe have to are brought to
40:05
this region to to protect the Israeli regime so while the the the Chinese are
40:11
rising peacefully and they have their own problems obviously the Chinese economy is not doing very well but at
40:18
least they don't have wars uh being they're not waging Wars across the globe
40:25
they can at least focus on healing their economy or dealing with the problems in their economy but what is the United
40:32
States doing it is expanding the war in Ukraine it is encouraging the ukrainians
40:37
to attack Russia itself only to make things worse uh in the coming months and
40:43
it is encouraging genocide and Holocaust and the and and terrorism by the Israeli
40:49
regime in our part of the world which is only going to make matters worse here as well so is is is a regime that forces
40:57
the Western countries which are declining and which have many economic problems at home and have deep divisions
41:03
at home and have Rising uh competitors is is the Israeli regime by for through
41:10
by forcing them to spend so much money uh on this regime to continue carrying
41:16
out genocide and Wrecking the image of the West and potentially creating a regional War which could destroy the
41:22
global economy is that an asset to the West imagine
41:27
if the United States gets involved in a war with Iran all us bases in the Persian Gulf will be destroyed and I
41:34
know some Americans will be deeply offended they think that uh their their their armed forces are like Supermen no
41:40
they their their bases are very accessible to Iran they're right across the Persian Gul very close to Iran Iran
41:47
has hundreds of thousands of drones and missiles but more important than the US
41:52
bases are those nation states those family dictatorships AC across the Persian Gulf that are hosting those
41:58
bases if the United States gets into conflict with Iran those regimes will be
42:04
considered as hostile they'll be destroyed immediately all of those gas
42:09
uh and oil assets across the Persian Gulf they'll disappear within days it'll
42:15
be over and the Americans will be driven from Iraq by the Iraqi resistance and Syria as well so imagine what sort of I
42:24
mean the the damage to the US Military and the image of of of of you know the
42:29
United States as a power that aside imagine the global economic catastrophy
42:35
that will uh follow it will be worse than far worse than 1929 in the Great
42:40
Depression of the 20th century is that does that make the Israeli regime an
42:46
asset or a liability and finally imagine the Israeli regime collapsed and we had
42:53
a a situation we had a a land Palestine where Jews and this is ultimately the
43:00
the correct solution where Jews Christians and Muslims live as equal human beings unlike what the west and Israel
43:07
want where Palestinians are considered as subhuman let's say we have a situation in Palestine where all all are
43:14
equal human beings will that help the relationship between West Asia North
43:20
Africa in Europe and the United States or would that harm the relationship it would remove the most
43:28
important point of contention it would remove that which is creating anger and
43:33
hostility across the region and the West constantly says our
43:38
Arab allies the West doesn't have any Arab allies these are a few family
43:44
dictatorships the the waters may seem calm now but you recall as well as I in
43:51
uh in before the so-called Arab Spring or The Awakening
43:57
in Tunisia a young man burned himself alive because of a local Injustice and we saw the results what the United
44:04
States and the Europeans are doing today to the Palestinian people is creating a rage across the region and across the
44:11
global South that if if if something
44:17
happens then they will regret it it it could be POS it's quite possible that
44:22
what happened in Tunisia 14 15 years ago
44:28
could happen again somewhere in this region and then all these regimes that are pro-western all these dictatorships
44:35
they could easily fall as we U Get move towards the finish
44:42
here Muhammad I want to I want to help everyone get some historical perspective on that because I think it's very
44:48
crucial what you're saying the masses of people the broad masses of people the
44:54
people who aren't normally in politics who are just going about their lives trying to survive when they enter a
45:01
historical process at a given moment it changes everything you could see this in
45:06
1978 and 79 in Iran powerful dictatorship established by the us when
45:13
the US carried out a coup our counterrevolution in 1953 against the a
45:18
democratically elected government in a in Iran that dared to nationalize the Anglo Iranian oil company which we now
45:25
know as BP uh the the masses came in and once the masses entered The
45:32
Fray uh the Shaw's days were numbered the US the main complaint if you read
45:37
big new brazinsky um biography which I don't encourage people to do uh but he
45:44
he says the main his main complaint against the Sha was the Sha was too weak meaning he didn't kill enough Iranians
45:51
like there should have been this use of massive amounts of violence on top of the already massive violence had killed
45:57
so many thousands of Iranians brazinski and the Americans were upset that he wasn't more brutal but my point is once
46:05
the people come into a process once the Dam breaks there's nothing more powerful
46:10
when you look at the French Revolution or the Haitian revolution or any of the revolutions that are like real like the
46:17
Iranian Revolution like real markers and turning points in in human history it's
46:22
when that when they when the masses finally come in and they come in sort of towards the end but when you keep you have to
46:29
remember in Iran Jimmy Carter right before the Revolution began to
46:37
explode he was in tan months before the overthrow of the Sha and he said that Iran under the Sha
46:46
is an island of stability and there were tens of thousands of of American advisers in Iran and others in Iran they
46:54
didn't see it coming so how can they be sure that as people across the region
47:00
are watching children being beheaded Massacre day and night men and women
47:06
being raped and people being slaughtered mourning tonight that at some point they
47:13
will not react and undermine those regimes that are in bed with Americans
47:18
in bed with Israelis I think it's I'm not saying it is inevitable but I think
47:25
that the chances of something happening are very high anger is growing and the
47:30
longer this war takes the more it expands the more dangerous it becomes for the United
47:37
States I remember that quote from Jimmy Carter uh Iran and the Sha were an
47:42
island of stability and a sea of turmoil that's right was the actual quote and I
47:48
remember it because shortly thereafter I was marching with Iranian students in
47:54
America who were protesting against the savak that was you know really you know
48:01
entering the United States to deal with Iranians who were denters um and the Sha came out on the
48:08
west side of this the north side of of the White House by Lafayette Park and he
48:15
stood with the SHA this was right after he said you are an island of stability and a sea of turmoil meaning the Middle
48:21
East and the Iranian students started moving towards the towards they were
48:27
standing and the police started firing tear gas at all the protesters but the
48:33
wind changed and the tear gas wafted back and right into the face of the Sha
48:39
and Jimmy Carter and so you could see them crying on the White House lawn and
48:45
this was right after they said you're a an island of stability and a sea of turmoil I it's a perfect scenario
48:52
because then as you're saying you know shortly thereafter Irani erupts and many
48:58
people thought at that time that Saudi Arabia would erupt Ronald Reagan said at that time there will not be a revolution
49:04
in Saudi Arabia as if he could determine uh the destiny of the people there but it meant that the US was now having lost
49:11
Iran was going to insist that s the Saudi regime stay
49:16
intact so uh again I want people to really you know we always think things
49:22
don't really change until they really change and then you look back and you say oh we could see that coming that was
49:27
inevitable well when you when people are watching a genocide in real time as you're pointing out as they are in the
49:34
streets as they suffer indignity after indignity at a certain point the dam does break and it will break I mean
49:41
that's what I think will happen and and you know more than half of the Israeli population has a second passport as a
49:48
settler regime a lot of people can leave um and and so we could we could be on
49:54
the verge of a complete re organization of the Middle East what many in the
49:59
Palestinians are calling the era of National Liberation has begun uh anyway it's pregnant with all
50:06
of these possibilities that people usually don't think are possible and certainly not likely but the when you
50:13
look at the last 25 years I I can't come to any other conclusion anyway with that said I'm going to give you the last
50:21
word I uh agree that the world is changing and that that people across the
50:27
world are uh are aware of what's going on but
50:33
what is most encouraging for me is that people many people in the west are
50:38
waking up to the reality many young Jews Christians Muslims Hindus people from
50:45
all all walks of life they are resisting against the empire they are
50:50
outraged by the genocide and what they do is very important not only because it
50:56
puts pressure on these Western regimes that are neither free nor Democratic and which are just as guilty as the the the
51:04
Zionist soldiers who are carrying out these atrocities but it also shows the rest of the world that people in the
51:10
United States people across Europe like them are uh outraged people who are
51:17
Christian Jewish Muslim people from across the country Hindu whatever they
51:23
that they too feel the same and they don't people across the world don't see the West as uh a United people who are
51:30
backing these uh horrific policies all right we're going to leave
51:35
it right there Muhammad Mandi talking to us from Tyran Muhammad thank you so much
