Video Infoblog: The Julian Assange Show Episode 1: Nasrallah (2012)

Transcript

0:00

[Music]

0:00

I'm Julian

0:02

Assange

0:04

getra editor of WikiLeaks we have

0:06

exposed the world's Secrets these

0:08

documents belong to the United States

0:10

government being attacked by the

0:11

powerful the United States strongly

0:13

condemned hey quit asking question

0:16

illegally shoot the son of a for 500

0:18

days now I've been detained without

0:21

charge but that hasn't stopped

0:25

us today we're on a quest for

0:28

revolutionary ideas the can change the

0:30

world

0:31

[Music]

0:43

tomorrow this week I am joined by a

0:46

guest from a secret location in Lebanon

0:49

he is one of the most extraordinary

0:51

figures in the Middle East he has fought

0:54

many armed battles with Israel and is

0:56

now caught up in the international

0:58

struggle over Syria

1:00

I want to know why is he called a

1:03

freedom fighter by millions and at the

1:05

same time a terrorist by millions of

1:08

others this is his first interview in

1:11

the west since the 2006 Israel Lebanon

1:15

war his party Hezbollah is a member of

1:19

the Lebanese government he is its leader

1:22

s Hassan

1:27

NAA are you ready

1:31

I'm

1:37

ready what is your vision for the future

1:40

of Israel and Palestine what would

1:44

Hezbollah consider Victory if you had

1:47

that Victory would you

1:51

disarm the state of Israel is not a it's

1:54

an illegal State it's a state that was

1:57

established on the basis of occupying

1:59

the lands of other

2:00

of usurping the lands of others of

2:02

controlling by force the lands of others

2:05

of committing massacres against the

2:08

Palestinians who were

2:10

expelled and they include Muslims and

2:12

Christians too so for this

2:15

reason Justice is Justice remains

2:20

remains on the on the side where even if

2:23

10 years passes the the the progress of

2:26

time does not turn Justice into does not

2:29

negate Justice if it's my if your house

2:33

and I go and occupy it by force it

2:35

doesn't become mine in 50 or 100 years

2:37

just because I'm stronger than you and

2:39

I've been able to occupy your hands that

2:41

doesn't give me that doesn't legalize my

2:43

ownership of your house at least this is

2:44

our ideological View and our legal View

2:47

and we believe that Palestine belongs to

2:49

the Palestinian

2:51

people but if we wanted

2:53

to combine ideology and law and

2:58

political uh realties and relatives on

3:00

the ground we should say that the only

3:02

solution is we don't want we don't want

3:03

to kill anyone we don't want to be treat

3:07

anyone unjustly we want Justice to be

3:10

restored to the and the only solution is

3:13

the establishment of one state one state

3:15

on the land of Palestine in which the

3:17

Muslims and the Jews and the Christians

3:19

live in peace in a democratic State any

3:23

other

3:24

solution will simply not be viable in it

3:27

will be sustained Israel says

3:30

that heah has fired Rockets into Israel

3:35

at civilian areas is that

3:42

true throughout the past

3:46

years even since 1948 when the state of

3:48

Israel was created on the land of

3:50

Palestine Israeli forces have been

3:53

shelling civilians Lebanese civilians in

3:56

Lebanese towns and Lebanese

3:58

villages

4:01

in the in the resistance years that's

4:03

between 1982

4:05

until

4:07

92 after 10 years of

4:11

resistance we started

4:14

reacting but purely and only and

4:17

strictly to stop Israel shelling our

4:20

civilians so in 1993 there was an

4:25

understanding it was indirect between

4:27

the resistance and Israel

4:30

and that

4:31

understanding was reaffirmed in 1996 and

4:34

that

4:36

understanding makes clear that both

4:38

sides avoid shelling civilians and we

4:40

always used to say if you don't don't

4:44

shell our Villages and towns then we

4:46

have nothing to do with your Villages

4:48

and your towns so this

4:51

method resorted to it after long years

4:54

of aggression against Lebanese civilians

4:56

and its aim is purely to make a kind of

5:00

deterrent balance to prevent Israel from

5:02

killing Lebanese

5:04

civilians according to wik leaks cables

5:07

coming out of the US Embassy in

5:11

Lebanon you said that you were

5:14

shocked about how corrupt Hezbollah

5:17

members are becoming because some

5:20

Hezbollah members were driving around in

5:24

SUVs SUVs wearing silk robes where

5:31

buying take away

5:36

food take

5:38

away is this a natural consequence of

5:41

Hezbollah moving into electoral politics

5:44

within

5:47

Lebanon first what they

5:49

said about about this this phenomenon is

5:53

not

5:54

correct this is part of the rumors that

5:58

they wanted to use to discredit hisbah

6:02

and distort its

6:03

image this is anyway part of the media

6:07

war against us you know they talk about

6:10

us they

6:12

say that we operate you know Mafia

6:16

organizations and and drug trafficking

6:20

uh organizations around the world which

6:23

even though in our religion and in our

6:25

morality this is absolutely one of the

6:27

biggest bands that something we we fight

6:30

against they say a lot of things that

6:32

are

6:33

baseless and I would want to affirm to

6:36

you first that this this thing is not

6:39

correct

6:41

secondly what they said recently I

6:45

say it is just a very it is a a limited

6:48

phenomenon and the reason for it is

6:50

that there are some You Know Rich

6:53

families which which were not which in

6:55

the past were not supporting hisbah or

6:58

supporting its uh its line or its

7:01

ideology or its program you know after

7:05

2000 when the resistance in Lebanon

7:07

andah andah is a main component of the

7:11

resistance when they managed to liberate

7:13

South Lebanon that was seen as a kind of

7:15

Miracle created a great shock in

7:18

Lebanese Society because how could a

7:21

small group like this to stand for 33

7:24

days facing the biggest uh the most

7:27

powerful Army in the region without

7:29

being defeated so there are groups in

7:33

society which started considering

7:36

themselves Pro or or supporters of

7:39

hisbah and they come from you know a

7:42

wealthy background that lived live a

7:45

life consistent with their financial

7:47

capabilities so you know it's it's it's

7:51

you know this they say this phenomenon

7:52

moved toah but it's not true I say this

7:54

really confident and with the with the

7:56

information I have available to me this

7:58

is not really phenomenon that is there

8:00

that needs to be

8:04

remedied why have you

8:06

supported the Arab Spring in Tunisia

8:10

Yemen Egypt and other countries but not

8:15

in

8:17

Syria clear

8:19

reasons

8:21

first originally first as in principle

8:25

we don't want to interfere in the

8:26

interferes of Arab states this has

8:27

always been our policy

8:30

there have been developments in the Arab

8:31

world have been very serious and very

8:34

important to an extent that nobody no

8:37

movement no party can just not take a a

8:40

position regarding

8:44

them in Syria everybody knows that

8:48

Bashar Assad's regime has supported the

8:51

the resistance in Lebanon supported the

8:53

resistance in

8:55

Palestine it it has not backed down in

8:58

the face of is isi and American pressure

9:01

so it is a regime which serves the

9:03

Palestinian cause very

9:07

well what we call for in Syria is negot

9:09

is dialogue is a reform and for the

9:12

reforms to be carried out because the

9:13

alternative to that because of the

9:16

diversity that inside Syria because of

9:19

sensitivity of the situation in Syria

9:22

the alternativ is to push Syria into

9:23

Civil War and this is exactly what

9:25

America and Israel want for Syria say

9:28

over the week over 100 people killed in

9:32

homes including a journalist I had

9:34

dinner with a year ago Mary culvin I can

9:38

understand your logic in saying that we

9:40

should not just destroy a country for no

9:42

purpose and it is much better to reform

9:46

a country if possible but does Hezbollah

9:49

have a red

9:50

line if there are 100,000 people killed

9:54

1 million people killed when will

9:56

Hezbollah say that that is

10:01

Enough from the beginning of the events

10:03

in Syria we've had contacts constant

10:06

contacts with thean

10:08

leadership and we've spoken as friends

10:11

giving each other advice about the

10:13

importance of carrying out reforms right

10:16

from the beginning I personally found

10:19

that President assed was very willing to

10:22

carry out radical and important reforms

10:25

and this used to reassure us uh

10:27

regarding the positions that we took

10:30

at more than one occasion publicly I

10:33

used to give speeches and say this and

10:35

say this exactly and in my and in my

10:38

meetings with various Lebanese and Arab

10:40

and other political leaders I used to

10:42

tell them the same thing that I am

10:43

confident that President as said wants

10:45

reformed and He will carry out reforms

10:49

realistic genuine reforms but the

10:51

opposition has to agree to dialogue I'll

10:54

say more than this this is the first

10:56

time I say this we contacted even

10:59

elements of the

11:01

opposition to encourage them and to

11:04

facilitate the process of dialogue with

11:06

the regime but these parties rejected

11:09

dialogue and right from the beginning

11:11

we've had a regime that that is willing

11:14

to undergo reforms and prepared for

11:16

dialogue on the other side you have an

11:18

opposition which is not prepared for

11:20

dialogue and it's not prepared to accept

11:23

any the reforms all it wants is to bring

11:26

down the regime so this is a problem

11:28

another thing

11:30

what's happening in

11:31

Syria has to be we have to look at it

11:34

with two eyes not just with one

11:36

eye the the armed groups in Syria have

11:40

killed very many

11:42

civilians where do you see the Syrian

11:45

situation going what should we do uh to

11:48

stop the killing in Syria you have

11:51

spoken about

11:54

dialog and dialogue is very easy to talk

11:56

about but are there practical measures

11:59

to stop the Bloodshed occurring in

12:05

Syria in the previous question uh

12:08

there's something I didn't I didn't uh

12:10

mention but I'll add it to this to this

12:12

answer there's certainly states that

12:14

offer money that provide money that

12:16

provide weapons which are encouraging uh

12:19

fighting inside Syria and some of these

12:21

are Arab Arab countries and there are

12:22

non Arab countries as well this is from

12:24

one side there's a very serious sit uh

12:28

issue as well which is confirmed and we

12:30

all heard

12:33

Dr the AL leader when he when he called

12:36

for for fighting in Syria for for to

12:39

Arms in Syria so there are so there are

12:41

fighters from alqaeda who have arrived

12:43

in Syria and others that are that are

12:45

following

12:46

them from various

12:49

countries and they are trying to turn

12:51

Syria into a

12:53

battlegr the countries that provide

12:56

weapons and

12:57

money would be to get the opposition

13:01

groups that they're supporting to sit

13:02

down at the table and resolve things

13:05

politically I said this a few days ago

13:06

that certain Arab

13:08

countries are prepared are prepared to

13:11

have 10 years to go into a political

13:13

dialogue with Israel for tens of years

13:15

nonstop despite everything that Israel

13:17

did in the region but they w't give one

13:19

year or two years for a political or

13:21

even just a few months to for a

13:22

political solution with Syria and this

13:24

just doesn't make any sense and it's

13:26

unfair would you be willing to mediate

13:29

between these opposition groups and the

13:32

Assad regime people trust that you are

13:35

not an agent of the United States or

13:37

Saudi or Israel but will they trust that

13:40

you are not an agent of the Assad regime

13:44

if they can be convinced will you accept

13:47

to broker the

13:50

peace the experience of 30 years of's

13:53

life proves

13:55

that it is a friend of Syria not an

13:58

agent of Syria

14:01

you know there have been periods of

14:03

lebanon's political lives during which

14:07

the our relationship with syri was not

14:09

good uh we had problems between us there

14:12

were problems between us and now those

14:14

who used to benefit from the political

14:17

and influence of Syria and Lebanon they

14:20

are now the ones who are who are OPP

14:23

opposing us whereas we used to be under

14:25

pressure from Syria look we are friends

14:27

we're not agents the the various

14:30

segments of the of the Syrian opposition

14:33

know that and all the political forces

14:34

in the region know that as well we are

14:37

friends first that's the first point

14:39

secondly when I say we support a

14:41

political

14:43

solution then most certainly will be

14:46

willing to exert any effort or any

14:49

contribution to achieve that sort of

14:52

political solution in the past I said to

14:54

you that we we contacted some parties

14:58

but they refused to get into a dialogue

15:01

with the regime so any any group that

15:04

wants dialogue with the regime and would

15:06

like us to be to be goet we'll be more

15:09

than happy to mediate but we are asking

15:13

others to make their effort to uh to uh

15:17

to to create a political

15:19

solution I I believe that these

15:22

opposition groups would find hezbollah's

15:25

role more credible if you said to the

15:28

Syrian Reg of Assad that we have a red

15:32

line is the Syrian regime free to do

15:36

what it wants as far as heah is

15:39

concerned or are there some things that

15:41

heah will not

15:44

accept yes for sure I think that

15:48

President Bashar Assad has red lines and

15:50

that our brothers in Syria have red

15:52

lines and we reaffirm these red lines

15:55

that we should all all abide by it but

15:58

the problem is that there is fighting

16:00

going on and accordingly when one side

16:05

Retreats the other one

16:08

advances so long as the doors to a

16:10

political solution are slammed closed

16:12

then there going then this is going to

16:13

continue because even if one party

16:15

Retreats the other one will

16:18

advance Tunisia has declared that it

16:21

will not recognize the Syrian regime

16:23

anymore why has Tunisia taken this

16:27

strong move

16:29

to disconnect itself from

16:32

Syria I

16:35

believe the position that was taken in

16:37

Tunis or elsewhere was based either on

16:44

incomplete consider I won't say

16:46

incorrect I would say incomplete

16:48

evidence of course there's there's even

16:50

mistaken incorrect information which was

16:52

presented to Arab and and Western

16:54

governments when it was told when they

16:56

were told that the the regime is going

16:58

to all just within a matter of weeks so

17:00

a lot of them wanted to be partners to

17:01

this anticipated Victory I don't conceal

17:04

also my belief

17:07

that perhaps the reason for some of

17:10

these positions

17:12

taken because the young new governments

17:16

have got fa tough tests and they believe

17:19

that they now is not the time to start

17:21

getting into arguments with the US and

17:23

the west and things like that and it's

17:24

better to appease them and go along with

17:26

them in a lot of these issues you have

17:28

made a international media Network the

17:33

United States is blocking almanar from

17:37

broadcasting into the

17:39

us at the same time the United States

17:41

declares that it is a Bastion of free

17:45

speech why do you think the US

17:48

government is so scared of

17:53

almanar they want to be able to tell

17:55

people that terrorism terrorist

17:58

organizations it kills and it murders

18:01

but they won't let people listen to us

18:03

for example if there was a just trial

18:05

then at the very least the defendant

18:08

should have an opportunity to defend

18:12

themselves but the US

18:14

Administration we we are accused but we

18:17

don't even have that very basic right to

18:21

to defend ourselves and to give a

18:24

argument to the peoples of the world and

18:28

so they preventing this voice from

18:30

reaching S as a leader in

18:33

war how did you manage to keep your

18:37

people together under the face of enemy

18:42

fire the main thing as far as we're

18:45

concerned is that we had an objective we

18:47

specified our objective this

18:49

objective is a human and a

18:53

moral and faith-based and patriotic one

18:57

there's no debate about this objective

18:59

is to liberate our land from occupation

19:02

this is the this is the original reason

19:04

the real reason why hisbah was

19:06

established in the first place and

19:07

there's no dispute about this among

19:09

Lebanese we we did not want to be we did

19:13

not want to get into government we did

19:14

not compete for political power the

19:17

first time we entered the government the

19:19

Lebanese government was in 2005 and the

19:22

aim then was not in order to have a

19:24

share of power but to protect the to

19:27

protect the back of the resistance so

19:30

that this government the government that

19:32

was set up in 2000 wouldn't make any

19:34

incorrect mistake against the resistance

19:36

we had fears of that kind and so when

19:39

you have a objective a correct objective

19:43

and I make it my priority and I avoid

19:45

all other uh rivalries for the sake of

19:48

this objective then I can keep everyone

19:51

close together and people cooperating to

19:54

achieve this objective and until this

19:56

moment we are we avoid getting involved

20:01

in internal squabbles as far as we can

20:04

you can see there are many many issues

20:05

in Lebanon about which there are huge

20:07

arguments and differences we we avoid

20:11

sometimes even expressing our view or

20:12

taking a position so as not to get

20:14

involved in quarrels with people our

20:16

priority is still the liberation of our

20:19

land and the protection of Lebanon from

20:22

the Israeli threat because we believe

20:23

that Lebanon it still faces a

20:26

threat I want to go back to when you

20:30

were a boy you were the son of a green

20:33

grosser what was your first memory as a

20:36

boy in this home in Lebanon and did

20:39

these early memories affect your

20:42

political

20:45

thought

20:47

naturally when I was a child when I was

20:49

a little child I was born and lived and

20:54

lived for 15

20:57

years since I was born in a

21:00

neighborhood in East

21:03

Beirut that neighborhood had certain

21:07

characteristics and naturally the

21:09

environment leaves leaves certain effect

21:12

on one's

21:13

personality one of the characteristics

21:15

of this neighborhood is that it was a

21:16

poor area it used to have Muslims

21:20

sh and there

21:22

was Sunni

21:25

Muslims there was

21:27

Christians there were

21:29

Armenians there were

21:32

Kurds and also there were Lebanese and

21:35

Palestinians as well both so I was born

21:39

and lived in this very mixed and varied

21:41

environmental hat so naturally this made

21:46

uh this made me sort of alert and

21:49

concerned about Palestine and the

21:51

Injustice which the Palestinian people

21:53

had been subjected to I had an very

21:55

early awareness of that because the

21:57

Palestinians who were in our

21:59

they were all expelled from their their

22:01

towns from ha froma from Jerusalem from

22:05

ramala these uh this was the environment

22:08

that I was born in and brought up

22:10

in I I read a rather amusing joke of

22:15

yours about Israeli encryption and

22:19

decryption this is interesting to me

22:21

because I am an expert in

22:26

encryption and wik is under extensive

22:30

surveillance do you remember this

22:33

joke yes I was speaking um

22:37

about about how Simplicity can defeat

22:41

complexity for

22:43

example Israeli forces in Lebanon they

22:46

use very sophisticated

22:48

technology either in their weapons or in

22:51

their

22:53

Communications the resistance on the

22:54

other hand is a popular

22:57

resistance and

22:59

most of the young men in it are just

23:01

ordinary Village boys and they come from

23:03

farms and small towns and they come from

23:06

an agricultural

23:08

community

23:10

and they speak on ordinary walkie

23:13

talkies there's no there's no

23:15

complication about it they're very

23:16

simple uh

23:18

devices but when

23:20

they when they use code they simply use

23:24

the kind of language that the kind of

23:25

slang that's used in their Villages and

23:27

among their amilies so anyone

23:30

listening anyone listening sort of

23:32

behind the surveillance devices and

23:34

having computers trying to trying to

23:37

decode these this kind of language they

23:40

will never be a they won't be easily be

23:42

able to find out what this means unless

23:45

they've lived for

23:46

years among these

23:49

Villages so for example they use certain

23:52

words just the village kind of

23:55

terms you know the cooking pot the

23:58

monkey

24:01

the even Village

24:03

sayings yeah you know the father of the

24:06

chicken or something like this you know

24:08

yeah no Israeli intelligence agent or

24:11

computer analyst is going to understand

24:13

who the father of the chicken is and why

24:15

they call him the father of the

24:18

chicken but that's not going to do you

24:19

any good in Wikileaks by the way you can

24:23

dialect I I just make one very

24:26

provocative question

24:30

but it is not

24:34

political you have fought against a

24:37

hemony of the United States isn't Allah

24:42

or the notion of a God the ultimate

24:45

superpower and shouldn't you as a

24:47

freedom fighter also seek to liberate

24:51

people from the totalitarian concept of

24:55

a

24:56

monotheistic God

25:02

we believe that God

25:05

Almighty is the

25:07

creator of this existence and of human

25:10

beings and of all cre

25:13

creatures when we when he created us he

25:17

gave us capabilities he gave us these

25:19

bodies he gives us psychological and

25:21

spiritual

25:22

capabilities we call it

25:26

Instinct people in isolation just in

25:29

isolation from religious laws just they

25:31

have an

25:33

instinct but they have an instinct to

25:36

tell the truth they have an instinct

25:38

their instinct tells them that truth is

25:40

good that lying is bad that Justice is

25:42

good that Injustice is

25:45

bad that helping poor people and

25:48

unjustly treated people and defending

25:50

them is a good

25:52

thing attacking others and shedding

25:55

their blood this is

25:57

horrible

26:02

the issue of of resisting American

26:05

hegemony or resisting occupation or

26:08

resisting any attack against us or

26:10

against our

26:11

people this is a moral issue and an

26:14

instinctive one and a human one now God

26:17

also wanted it like this so in this

26:21

sense moral and human principles are

26:25

consistent with the law of

26:30

because the the the abrahamic religions

26:33

did not come up with anything that

26:35

contradicts the mind or conducts the

26:38

human

26:39

instinct because the creator of the

26:42

religion is the same as the creator of

26:44

the

26:44

humans and the two things are totally

26:49

consistent whenever in any country you

26:53

know even if in a house or in a country

26:55

if there are two leaders that's a recipe

26:56

for ruin so how could the Universe last

26:59

for billions of

27:02

years in such beautiful Harmony and have

27:06

more than one God if there was more than

27:08

one God it would have been Torn to

27:10

Pieces so we do have the evidence we

27:13

don't we don't fight to impose an a

27:15

religious belief on

27:17

anybody Abraham the prophet

27:20

Abraham was always in favor of dialogue

27:24

and showing evidence and we are all we

27:26

are all followers of that

27:28

Prophet thank

27:35

you it's great thank you thank you these

27:39

are the

27:43

[Laughter]

27:57

interpreters

28:01

[Music]

28:10

s

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